Starting Loads for Lee 230 gr. Cast Bullets?

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Dolomite_Supafly
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Re: Starting Loads for Lee 230 gr. Cast Bullets?

Post by Dolomite_Supafly »

You can tumble them in powder coating powder too. I have done a lot using that method. Total cost was under $50 including the oven. Without an over it is less than $20.

*******WARNING*******
There are several separate compilations of 842 powder, SMP and WC being the most common from what I have seen. And each version is vastly different as far as what is safe. I have and decided to use SMP842 for this testing. I have a lot of experience with this powder and feel comfortable.
DO NOT USE THIS LOAD DATA FOR ANY OTHER VERSION OF 842!

And if you do decide to use this load data with SMP842 use proper hand loading techniques and start low.



I tumbled them using the "piglet method" except I used Klean Strip brand lacquer thinner rather than acetone. The results are amazing because the powder coating is ONLY sticking to the bullets and not the plastic bucket when using lacquer thinner. You can also pour off the essentially clean lacquer thinner after the bullets have been coated. It also uses about 1/3 less powder to do the same coating, no doubt because I am not coating the bucket, too. I am using powder from Powder By The Pound to coat. The powder I use is the polyester TGIC 400 degree powder. Harbor Freight powder tends to be very finicky and it does not work as well as the PBTP powder. HF powder will work but it isn't as easy as PBTP powder.

I did NOT use any type of lube. I did NOT use gas checks.

I was sent some 22 caliber cast bullets to try. They are ~45 and ~48 grains. I coated the heavier ones with a base color, red, and the lighter ones with a metallic paint, copper. I was going to push these HARD to see where the standard color fails and where the metallic fails.

They were coated at the same time and baked at the same time. I then sized them all to the same size, .224". They do NOT have gas checks and have a shank to accept gas checks.

I loaded them in surplus LC brass that are virgin, as in never been shot before. I am using SMP 842 with each bullet's powder charged being weighed individually. I loaded two each with the same amount of powder using each bullet. I have a total of 20 shots to be fired with each bullet weight and each charge weight having two rounds identical.

I shot them out of a Savage with a factory 9 twist barrel that is 22" long.

I chronographed each shot and between each two shots I inspected the bore for anything odd.

I was expecting the velocities to start around 2,900 fps and get to about 3,300 fps. If these things are going to fail this is going to do it. Afterwards I am going to load more and shoot them into water jugs to see how they perform.

Pictures
Image

Image
I feel these are too heavily coated and the next batch I will use about 1/2 the amount of powder.

So I was able to chronograph and actually push these powder coated bullets to the limit. After that I shot one into water to see how they perform. I used a Savage bolt action with a 22" barrel that has a 9 twist.

The velocities are averages of two shots. There are two separate compilations of 842 powder, SMP and WC. And each version is vastly different. I do not want to publish data for SMP842 and have someone mistaken the data for WC842. Each list is the same load data with the only variation is the bullet itself.

Heavy using SMP842 and base color
3,132 fps (I think something was funky with this result, I stepped away from the chronograph and continued)
2,818 fps (cleaned fine with no lead)
3,192 fps (cleaned fine with no lead)
3,331 fps (cleaned fine with no lead)
3,486 fps (hard to patch and lead came out on the patch)

Lightweight using SMP842 and metallic powder
3,051 fps (cleaned fine with no lead)
2,983 fps (cleaned fine with no lead)
3,293 fps (started getting resistance with the patch but no lead on the patch)
3,247 fps (hard to patch and lead came out on the patch)
3,489 fps (hard to patch and lead came out on the patch)

What is really surprising is even after the bore had lead the second patch came out nearly clean. The third patch could have been used again it was so clean. At no time did I see any powder coating powder or plastic on the patches. When the patch met resistance and lead came out the second patch went down the bore smoothly with less resistance.

I would feel safe pushing the red to 3,200 fps. Even though it was clean at 3,300 fps I like to give myself a bit of latitude in case something does go wrong. I don't think the copper worked as well as the red.

I also shot one of the red bullets into the water jugs. The bullet weighed 48.7 before and 21.9 afterwards so it lost 1/2 its weight in the water. It passed through 2 jugs and sprinkled the third with pieces.
Image

Image

If anyone is interested I can also detail my method of tumble coating and baking bullets.

Ask if you have any questions.
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3006mv
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Re: Starting Loads for Lee 230 gr. Cast Bullets?

Post by 3006mv »

Oh wow thanks for sharing, I think I could handle that method, looks like I need to shop around for a .224 mold now.

Yes please share your instructions of your process, thanks
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Re: Starting Loads for Lee 230 gr. Cast Bullets?

Post by destrux »

3006mv wrote:well at 25m i can get decent groups of 1.5"-3 ", this is w/o support and open sights. at 50m it opens up to a fist sized group. i need to get farther out and use shooting sticks or something better than squatting in the mud.

if you notice from the picture there is a final crimp groove below the driving band, i seat it right at that spot. I confess i have never had to measure the oal b/c i just adjust my seating die to that "spot". rest assured they fit my ar mags. read your instructions that came with the dies, it may have info there.

i really wish Lee Precision would come out with a powder through expanding rifle die for this caliber, that would be the bee's knees, and make my reloading life so much better. I have this cool adapter for the Lee perfect powder measure that i can stick right on top of any pistol powder through expanding (flare) die, so much easier and faster for me as i only use 2 old single stage presses.

Lee does make a powder through expander die that works with 300 blackout. It's their .30 mauser/.30 Luger expander die. It came in my 7.62 tokarev die set, actually. That caliber is designed to use .309" jacketed bullets, so it's perfect for flaring the case mouth without expanding the whole neck on calibers that use .309" lead bullets.

How did you powder coat those black bullets pictured? Spray or liquid tumble? I've always sprayed but I might try the tumble method because I don't know how to get full coverage on these when spraying without using a complicated jig.
3006mv
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Re: Starting Loads for Lee 230 gr. Cast Bullets?

Post by 3006mv »

Yes I found this out a few months back and got one, it works pretty well, makes reloading that much quicker for me.
I have tumbled but no longer use harbor freight black
I don't PC the lee boolits now that they don't lead but I do tumble PC others
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krank
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Re: Starting Loads for Lee 230 gr. Cast Bullets?

Post by krank »

Can you help a newbie out?
In order to get the right C.O.L., does the base of the bullet extend down past the neck into the powder area? Is that bad if the bullet seats below the neck?
Has anyone ever tried filling the case up to the start of the neck with trailboss?
I am using a handi rifle.
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gds
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Re: Starting Loads for Lee 230 gr. Cast Bullets?

Post by gds »

krank wrote:Can you help a newbie out?
In order to get the right C.O.L., does the base of the bullet extend down past the neck into the powder area?
Yes
krank wrote: Is that bad if the bullet seats below the neck?
No at least not for the 300blk
krank wrote: Has anyone ever tried filling the case up to the start of the neck with trailboss?
yes. with a heavy bullet it is no good. it requires the powder to be extremely compressed. I did this and let it sit over night and the bullet was pushed out the next morning. With lighter weight bullets Trail boss is great for single shot subsonics
krank wrote: I am using a handi rifle.
[/quote]

Again Trail boss and light weight bullets are great,
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krank
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Re: Starting Loads for Lee 230 gr. Cast Bullets?

Post by krank »

good info-thx
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threehundred
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Re: Starting Loads for Lee 230 gr. Cast Bullets?

Post by threehundred »

Just a friendly heads up, you really don't want to compress Trail Boss powder, all manufacturer load data warns against it.

I shoot a lot of Trail Boss. Mainly because I can create my own charges, from subs to full house in specific calibers, using IMR's directions of starting at 30% below the amount of powder it takes to reach the base of the bullet seating depth and working my way up to the bullet seated base. I have loaded/shot so many pounds of TB, for so many years, I don't bother starting below the bullet base anymore. I just load everything right up to it from the git-go.

BE WARNED, YOUR RESULTS MAY DIFFER!!!

I load Trail Boss in 308win, marlin444, 38spl, 45acp, 44mag, 223rem subs in a pump action, 45colt and 410bore.

Some folks don't like the way it measures. I like it. All the best.
Last edited by threehundred on Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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dellet
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Re: Starting Loads for Lee 230 gr. Cast Bullets?

Post by dellet »

threehundred wrote:Just a friendly heads up, you really don't want to compress trail Boss powder, all manufacturer load data warns against it.

I shoot a lot of Trail Boss. Mainly because I can create my own charges, from subs to full house in specific calibers, using IMR's directions of starting at 30% below the amount of powder it takes to reach the base of the bullet seating depth and working my way up to the bullet seated base. I have loaded/shot so many pounds of TB, for so many years, I don't bother starting below the buller base anymore. I just load everything right up to it from the git-go.

BE WARNED, YOUR RESULTS MAY DIFFER!!!

I load Trail Boss in 308win, marlin444, 38spl, 45acp, 44mag, 223rem subs in a pump action, 45colt and 410bore.

Some folks don't like the way it measures. I like it. All the best.
Actually 300 Blk is one of the few that Hodgdon lists compressed loads for using Trail Boss and bullets in the 130-150 range.
Hodgdon Data 300 AAC Blackout wrote:Hornady 150, FMJ Hodgdon Trail Boss .308" 2.235" 6.8 942 25,200 PSI 7.8C 1,033 28,700 PSI
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.
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Re: Starting Loads for Lee 230 gr. Cast Bullets?

Post by Dolomite_Supafly »

My single shot loads consist of ~5 grains of compressed Trail Boss with a 240+ grain cast bullet and have not had any issues at all. I have also filled the case up, ended up being ~7 grains, and seated the same 240+ grain cast bullet. Shooting those were uneventful. ALL of my Trail Boss loads are compressed.

Not saying this is safe for everyone but my personal experience says compressing Trail Boss is not an issue with the Blackout. I will say if you are new to Trail Boss work up your loads accordingly.
Last edited by Dolomite_Supafly on Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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