Reloading: How-To Resource Guide

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BoomerVF14
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Re: Reloading: How-To Resource Guide

Post by BoomerVF14 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:06 am

:roll: So much for letting a gent rest on his laurels :lol: :lol: :lol: Awright, I'll see what I can do RE: the dime.

In all seriousness, to dellet's point, during workups I did push the ladder out to 18.2gr:

MV: 2251
SD: 12.8
ES: 32

Primers were slightly flatter than normal, but most significantly the grouping opened to 2.52MOA. Now, I'm not a solid enough marksman to write off trying it again - may have been a bad day that trip. It's good to have a proven baseline for my rifle though, that's for sure.

...But I'm thinking the dime challenge is going to take precedence once I get off my butt and make some more!

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KenC52
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Re: Reloading: How-To Resource Guide

Post by KenC52 » Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:10 am

Schneeky wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:00 pm
Aaaight then.. Since I haven't been dejected I'll assume my ramblings are ok.. So here's another one. Worth every penny it cost ya. :lol:

Reload at the range...

..When I first got into this I did like a lot of guys do. Load several different combinations and tak'em to the range to see how they do. Very annoying and wasteful. Then when I got into competitive BR shooting those cats showed me a trick. Load right there at the bench or nearby, make the most out of your time. I've been to a bunch of BR shoots, and all your reloading gear is portable. Most of those cats are using Harrell's gear. But even the usual RCBS, Lee's and such can be made easily portable. Make a plate with a coupla threaded holes in it, some C clamps and you're ready to roll. Not really sure what you'd do with a Dillon in this respect.
..I'm sure the "grain cutters" will shriek, but in my years of BR shooting, which is arguably the most precision shooting discipline going (.250 MOA 5/5 100/200/300yd groups and you're a loser!), you very rarely see anyone weighing charges. They're generally thrown thru a Harrell's Custom 90 or variation and "clicks" become your increments. Bump your charges, adjust seating depth, switch components, tweak brass, yadda yadda. All right there as you're testing. My complete reloading set up with components fits in a large Flambeau tackle box. Very handy.
..Anyways, just food for thought. You have options to the "norm". If you've already invested inna big home setup I can see the advantage of sticking with it. If you're just getting started, considering all options is key. I have pics, but am currently "between FTP servers" so I can't post them here. In light of the "no chatter" rule of this thread, please IM me for more info, or to gimme crap cause I do things the way I do.. Hehehe. :lol: 8) d:^) Schneeks..
40 or so years ago when I was a member of the Texas City Gun Club they had a loading press set up in the clubhouse. You could sign a waiver accepting full responsibility for anything that happened as a result of your hand loading and use the loading station while at the range as long as it was during the hours that the range master was present and the building unlocked. Spent a lot of peaceful Thursdays (my day off back then) with 10 pieces of brass a couple of powders and a few different boxes of bullets. Of course the "petty fogging lawyers" (Rooster Cogburn from True Grit) probably make such a set up impossible today.

MaxG66
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Re: Reloading: How-To Resource Guide

Post by MaxG66 » Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:41 pm

Schneeky wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:35 pm
Back on topic: This is a thing that drove be bonkers wayyy back when I first started loading. OAL measurements. Have ya ever got yer seater set up "dead nuts on" to a specific measurement, then loaded a few rounds and checked them only to find OAL's all over the place? The seater's fine, it's usually the bullets. Lead tips get dinged, plastic tips ain't seated all the way, jackets are different lengths, and I don't know WHAT in the heck goes on with those pulled bullets! They can be over .020" off. Ya get what ya pay for, as usual.
A comparator will help a bunch with this. Measure off the ogive instead of the tip of the bullet. The better the bullets, the more consistent the measurements will be. Personally, I use the Sinclair "Nut". But there's several versions around.
Anyways, using those has saved a bunch of headaches over the years. d:^) Schneeks..

This makes sense to me, but the measurement from the ogive will be a different length than the COL, obviously, right? So, when the load data gives you COL, how do you convert that to ogive length? It seems it would be different for each bullet. Another 'obvious' thing I seem to be missing.

MG

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BoomerVF14
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Re: Reloading: How-To Resource Guide

Post by BoomerVF14 » Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:32 pm

I pick out a representative sample from a lot of bullets - pick enough to have a healthy sample size balanced against your tolerance for the monotony of this exercise :lol: . For each bullet, measure its length, and then use the .30 collet on the comparator to measure the bullet base to ogive.

Calculate averages for each measurement.

Subtract the average base-to-ogive from average bullet length. This is your average tip-to-ogive distance.

Finally, subtract tip-to-ogive from your desired COAL.

For example, with Nosler 125gr BTs I got an average length of 1.077" (SD .002) and BBTO (bullet base-to-ogive) of .456" (SD .001).

1.077 - .456 = .621" tip-to-ogive

Based on AAC's recommendation of a 2.085" COAL for this projectile (to feed reliably in 5.56 mags), my CBTO should be 2.085 - .621 = 1.464"

When loading, I've found there's a lot less adjusting my seater die during a run by using CBTO instead of COAL.

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dellet
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Re: Reloading: How-To Resource Guide

Post by dellet » Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:13 pm

I have a very fancy caliper that allows me to measure COL by placing the bullet tip on the rim of the comparator insert or measuring base to ogive by placing the bullet tip in the hole.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.

maxg
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Re: Reloading: How-To Resource Guide

Post by maxg » Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:06 am

Thanks, Boomer. Very helpful.

maxg
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Re: Reloading: How-To Resource Guide

Post by maxg » Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:35 am

BoomerVF14 wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:32 pm
I pick out a representative sample from a lot of bullets - pick enough to have a healthy sample size balanced against your tolerance for the monotony of this exercise :lol: . For each bullet, measure its length, and then use the .30 collet on the comparator to measure the bullet base to ogive.

Calculate averages for each measurement.

Subtract the average base-to-ogive from average bullet length. This is your average tip-to-ogive distance.

Finally, subtract tip-to-ogive from your desired COAL.

For example, with Nosler 125gr BTs I got an average length of 1.077" (SD .002) and BBTO (bullet base-to-ogive) of .456" (SD .001).

1.077 - .456 = .621" tip-to-ogive

Based on AAC's recommendation of a 2.085" COAL for this projectile (to feed reliably in 5.56 mags), my CBTO should be 2.085 - .621 = 1.464"

When loading, I've found there's a lot less adjusting my seater die during a run by using CBTO instead of COAL.

That all makes sense to me except the last sentence. I get how CBTO is more consistent than COL because of dinged bullet tips, etc... but when using a seater die, isn't the die pushing down on the tip to seat the bullet? If so, when it's producing a constant COL, which may(will) be a varying CBTO length because of the difference in bullet tips. If the seater actually seats based on the ogive, then I get it, but that's not how I thought it worked.

It seems the seater would seat to a constant COL then you'd have to adjust the die for every round to get a constant CBTO. Where am I wrong? What am I missing?

thanks!

MG

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bangbangping
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Re: Reloading: How-To Resource Guide

Post by bangbangping » Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:45 am

maxg wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:35 am
when using a seater die, isn't the die pushing down on the tip to seat the bullet?
Depends on the cartridge, bullet, and seating die. For most rifle cartridges the seater should make contact on the ogive. That contact may not be exactly where one would measure CBTO, though, so while it's much better than the bullet tip, it still may not be perfectly consistent.

maxg
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Re: Reloading: How-To Resource Guide

Post by maxg » Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:07 pm

Thank you. That makes more sense now. It still assumes the curve of the ogive is the same from bullet to bullet, but, I'm guessing, not as much variation as from base to tip.

thanks again!

ReadyAimDuck
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Re: Reloading: How-To Resource Guide

Post by ReadyAimDuck » Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:16 am

I've recently run into these same issues. I was using a lee seating die for 110 grain VMax and Tac-TX bullets which are long and pointy with a polymer tip. And, the seater stem in this die is not designed to accomodate the longer tipped bullets. So, the die is seating the bullet by indexing on the polymer tip. After seated, the length of the cartridges from the base of the cartridge to the ogive, using a comparator, was varying +- .005" and sometimes up to .007.

You are correct, that the bullets also vary in length from the base of the bullet to the ogive of the bullet. However, when I measure this with the comparator I get much more consistency. That variation is usually around .002-.003, which is half the difference in variation when measuring the cartridge after the bullet is seated. So, it seems to me that the seater stem contacting the tip of the bullet, which varies in length more than the length from the base of the bullet to the ogive of the bullet, is probably the biggest problem. Therefore, I want a seating die that indexes on the ogive of the bullet, even though this also can vary a small amount.

For $8.00 plus shipping, lee will make a custom seater stem that is deep enough to not index on the polymer tip of the bullet, if you send them the bullet you are loading with. So, I've sent them the longest bullet I plan to load and I am waiting to get my new seater stem back in the mail to see if I am correct and this gives me more consistent seating.

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