Brass issues, post here

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rjacobs
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Brass issues, post here

Post by rjacobs » Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:35 pm

There is another thread(probably multiple) where people are posting about issues with their converted brass not chambering in their rifles or getting stuck in the chamber, etc... Some people are claiming thick brass in the necks(which was the case body in the parent cartridge) is causing issues. I am trying to wrap my brain around this since I have had zero issues with about 1000 pieces of mixed brass that I never have looked at the head stamp on and its all mixed.

What I am interested in is this:
head stamp on brass you had issues with
conversion process(what dies, trimmer, etc...) or who you bought it from
what reloading dies
what bullet
what barrel/upper you had issues with


I am interested in head stamp to see if it is indeed due to "thick necks" causing the brass to end up out of spec.

Conversion process to see if some physical part(forming die) in your process could be out of spec or if your shoulder isnt far enough down, length to long, etc...

Reloading dies, same as conversion process, could be out of spec.

Some bullets might be slightly over sized causing the neck to be expanded out of spec when seating the bullet

What barrel you are running to see if there is an issue with the chamber reaming in certain barrels.

I would like to know, if you are having issues, what the various measurements of your brass is prior to loading to compare with the AAC spec of the ammo. One guy found out his cases were to long by a decent amount and that was causing his issues. Another found his case neck wasnt the right size and I think it was traced back to a bad sizing die.
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rjacobs
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Re: Brass issues, post here

Post by rjacobs » Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:43 pm

So I will go first:

I have had no issues with any brass through about 1000 pieces. Mostly all 5.56 brass, but I am sure I have done some .223 brass as well. I will have to dig through mine to see what all head stamps I have converted.

My conversion process includes the Dillon 550b trimmer die setup from Brads Warehouse(which I think is done by Whidden Gun Works) and I trim using the Dillon RT1200. Trim size is 1.358 with some cases measuring 1.360 so I am on the shorter side of the 1.368-.020 spec. Never measured the case mouth diameter or the brass thickness. Head space is set to the lower side of the Wilson case gauge.

Reloading dies are the Forster full length sizing and Ultra seating die. I went with Forster after reading AAC's comments on the specs of brass that came out of a couple of various dies and Forster was the closest to spec.

Havent had issues through 110g Hornady V-Max, 150g Hornady FMJBT, 208g AMAX or 220g SMK.

I run a 9" AAC 1/7 twist factory built upper.
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BC98
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Re: Brass issues, post here

Post by BC98 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:48 am

I've only ever had issue with one case but I've primarily shot factory ammo out of my gun.

Head stamp: S&B 5.56mm
Conversion process: Rough trim with cutting disk on a Dremel, sized with RCBS 300 BLK die, and final trim with RCBS Trim Pro to 1.360"
Projectile was a 145gr M80 clone from Widener's
Barrel was a 9" DCA chromoly barrel.

Round did not completely chamber and I had to mortar the charge handle to get it out. When I examined the round, the neck had excessive scrapes on it and I guessed that the neck was overly thick. Did not measure though.

caliplt
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Re: Brass issues, post here

Post by caliplt » Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:03 pm

Head stamp: RP
Conversion process: Cut with Harbor Freight cutoff saw, sized with Lee Dies, and trimmed with Lee trimmer
Projectiles were a 110 grain Speer HotCor and Hornady 150 grain FMJBT
Barrel was a CMMG 16" with extended and polished feed ramps.
Mags were everything you can think of from H&K to PMAG
Problem: Round would hang up going into the chamber

I'm eventually going to get a Sinclair and shave the necks to see if it helps.

rjacobs
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Re: Brass issues, post here

Post by rjacobs » Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:21 pm

caliplt wrote:Head stamp: RP
Conversion process: Cut with Harbor Freight cutoff saw, sized with Lee Dies, and trimmed with Lee trimmer
Projectiles were a 110 grain Speer HotCor and Hornady 150 grain FMJBT
Barrel was a CMMG 16" with extended and polished feed ramps.
Mags were everything you can think of from H&K to PMAG
Problem: Round would hang up going into the chamber

I'm eventually going to get a Sinclair and shave the necks to see if it helps.
If your rounds wouldnt even make it into the chamber, I think you have other issues. All I am really interested in is if the round wont fully chamber(and by wont fully chamber we are talking maybe very slightly, not a complete sideways jam) or if it gets stuck and wont extract. Your rounds are doing something else which I dont think is the fault of the brass. I think I remember reading your thread about the issue you are having.

Now if you are saying the rounds arent quite making it in(bolt almost closing, but not quite enough to put it in battery) than I am interested in your numbers from some measurements of your brass.
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caliplt
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Re: Brass issues, post here

Post by caliplt » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:30 pm

rjacobs wrote:
caliplt wrote:Head stamp: RP
Conversion process: Cut with Harbor Freight cutoff saw, sized with Lee Dies, and trimmed with Lee trimmer
Projectiles were a 110 grain Speer HotCor and Hornady 150 grain FMJBT
Barrel was a CMMG 16" with extended and polished feed ramps.
Mags were everything you can think of from H&K to PMAG
Problem: Round would hang up going into the chamber

I'm eventually going to get a Sinclair and shave the necks to see if it helps.
If your rounds wouldnt even make it into the chamber, I think you have other issues. All I am really interested in is if the round wont fully chamber(and by wont fully chamber we are talking maybe very slightly, not a complete sideways jam) or if it gets stuck and wont extract. Your rounds are doing something else which I dont think is the fault of the brass. I think I remember reading your thread about the issue you are having.

Now if you are saying the rounds arent quite making it in(bolt almost closing, but not quite enough to put it in battery) than I am interested in your numbers from some measurements of your brass.
Despite your all knowing gunsmithing knowledge...it is the fault of the brass. Lake City 09 runs like a raped ape. It is only RP brass that doesn't work.

Like I said, once I get the Sinclair, I'll get it to work.

Ken70
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Re: Brass issues, post here

Post by Ken70 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:44 pm

I'm new to 300 BLK, read thru the kaboom thread and agree it's most likely a thick neck pinching the bullet. There are two options with thick necks, ream it out or cut the outside of the neck thinner. Any advantages or disadvantages to doing either one? I'm making up an order to Midway and would like to include whatever tool I would need to deal with the necks. I can see how cutting down .223 brass, that was never drawn to the correct wall thickness for 300BLK, could be a real issue. Hoping the Remington 115gr 300BLK I have on order gets here this week....That will give me something to measure and compare my reloads.

rjacobs
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Re: Brass issues, post here

Post by rjacobs » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:45 pm

caliplt wrote: Despite your all knowing gunsmithing knowledge...it is the fault of the brass. Lake City 09 runs like a raped ape. It is only RP brass that doesn't work.

Like I said, once I get the Sinclair, I'll get it to work.
This is your thread I was talking about.
viewtopic.php?f=141&t=80735

I fail to see how a ridiculous fail to feed like your pictures show could be caused by brass that is perhaps .002 or .003 to thick.

The issues we have been discussing(at least I think what we have been discussing) are rounds not fully chambering and not quite allowing the gun to go into battery(yet still allowing the trigger to be pulled) or allowing the gun into battery, but are then getting stuck in the chamber.

I personally think something else is up with those rounds that are causing that in your gun, not ever so slightly thick necks. But if it makes you happy to think that something that is a few thousands off could cause a MASSIVE stoppage like your thread shows, keep on thinking it, but I personally think something else is up with your rifle.
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caliplt
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Re: Brass issues, post here

Post by caliplt » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:48 pm

rjacobs wrote:
caliplt wrote: Despite your all knowing gunsmithing knowledge...it is the fault of the brass. Lake City 09 runs like a raped ape. It is only RP brass that doesn't work.

Like I said, once I get the Sinclair, I'll get it to work.
This is your thread I was talking about.
viewtopic.php?f=141&t=80735

I fail to see how a ridiculous fail to feed like your pictures show could be caused by brass that is perhaps .002 or .003 to thick.

The issues we have been discussing(at least I think what we have been discussing) are rounds not fully chambering and not quite allowing the gun to go into battery(yet still allowing the trigger to be pulled) or allowing the gun into battery, but are then getting stuck in the chamber.

I personally think something else is up with those rounds that are causing that in your gun, not ever so slightly thick necks. But if it makes you happy to think that something that is a few thousands off could cause a MASSIVE stoppage like your thread shows, keep on thinking it, but I personally think something else is up with your rifle.
Well you are missing quite a lot then. Like I said, Lake City brass prepped in the EXACT same manner with the EXACT same projectiles, primers, and powder work without even a single hiccup.

rjacobs
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Re: Brass issues, post here

Post by rjacobs » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:51 pm

Ken70 wrote:I'm new to 300 BLK, read thru the kaboom thread and agree it's most likely a thick neck pinching the bullet.
As far as that thread goes, I doubt it was thick necks causing to much neck tension. I put a pretty firm crimp on mine that would put WAY more neck tension on a round than a thick neck would, at least I think it would. If a case had a thick neck and was then forced into the chamber it could then put a lot of neck tension on the bullet and cause an over pressure situation, however I would think if that were the case the round would not fully chamber.

But, another iteration of that thread is not what this thread is about.

I am trying to determine if a certain brand of die or barrel or certain case conversion process is producing out of spec brass or if its the actual brass that is being converted. So far there is not enough data to support anything.
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