Hodgdon Lil'Gun Load Data Only ***5 Best Loads Page 16*****

[gorillamotors]

Lots of great info. Have you used H110 with the 300AAC? If so, which do you like better and why? I just loaded up 100 rounds with both H110 and Lil Gun. Gotta find time now to shoot them. I inherited about 2500 80 gr .224 SMK and really cannot load them up for the AR. I was asking about using a 30 cal sabot and load them into the 300 AAC. Any opinions or comments or possible recipes??

Jim

[JohnInNH]

I get similar insane ES numbers ... IMHIO it is on the edge of un acctable..

1105 -664 in one string 15 shots ES=440 fps omit the hi n low and

1076
735
= ES of 341 still

Hand weighed 10.5 gr A1680 with a 190 gr bullet

Switch to American select with same bullet same brass worst ES= 58 but most are around 20-30 fps ES

[-k-]

Extreme spreads (ES) and standard deviations (SD) are unacceptably high in many cases, although with 200g Sierra Game Kings, I got as low as 7, 16 and 20 as SD, bad news was those loads fell way short of my 1050 FPS velocity target, averaging 1011 FPS.

If you have a load that functions well and is accurate at 1011 FFS I would run with it. That 39 FPS doesn't really give you much with subs, and as a plus it probably won't crack in the winter.

[JohnInNH]

Extreme spreads (ES) and standard deviations (SD) are unacceptably high in many cases, although with 200g Sierra Game Kings, I got as low as 7, 16 and 20 as SD, bad news was those loads fell way short of my 1050 FPS velocity target, averaging 1011 FPS.

If you have a load that functions well and is accurate at 1011 FFS I would run with it. That 39 FPS doesn't really give you much with subs, and as a plus it probably won't crack in the winter.

Agreed. My 1050 loads are NOT usable in the winter. They are also noiser due to bullet flight noise. 975 fps is noticably quieter. If I can get good numbers and cycling at 1000-1020 Im happy. Even in the winter 1000 fps can have a crack due to ES. SOOO my winter loads I target 950-975 fps as the target FPS.

[Maryland_Shooter]

Lots of great info. Have you used H110 with the 300AAC? If so, which do you like better and why? I just loaded up 100 rounds with both H110 and Lil Gun. Gotta find time now to shoot them. I inherited about 2500 80 gr .224 SMK and really cannot load them up for the AR. I was asking about using a 30 cal sabot and load them into the 300 AAC. Any opinions or comments or possible recipes??

Jim

From Hodgdon:

On the high end (supers), I get higer velocity and lower pressure.

110 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon H110 .308" 2.040" 18.8 2259 40,600 CUP 20.0 2382 50,600 CUP
110 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon Lil'Gun .308" 2.040" 18.9 2248 31.000 CUP 20.0 2388 37,600 CUP

On the low end (subs), it swaps around a bit, but looking at the velocity, not an exact mirror, so I suspect if you lower the Lil'Gun charge to hit 1050 instead of 1077, pressure should really be nearly equal - now that's just a guess, but one based on reasonable presumptions, I think. I could run the comparison in QuickLoad, but never though about it until you got me thinking about it.

Also, the H110 is using nearly 1 grain more (subs, see below), but getting less velocity, and per lb. that'll give you about 75 more rounds - retail value of at least $80-$100. We are comparing ONLY powder to a complete cartridge, so you have to add the case, projo and primer cost, but you still get more for less at the start, so what's not to like?

220 GR. SIE HPBT Hodgdon H110 .308" 2.260" 9.9 1050 29,700 CUP
220 GR. SIE HPBT Hodgdon Lil'Gun .308" 2.260" 9.0 1077 31,100 CUP

Nope, haven't used H110. I did an initial powder evaluation, settled on Lil'Gun and pretty much stuck with it. I may have loaded some RE7 initially, but am making every round on a RCBS ChargeMaster and loathe changing powders because this already painfully slow. Haven't tried 1680 or 2400, but may get some soon when I restock powders. Again, making 20 rounds at 11.2g of 1680, 11.0g of 1680, 10.8g of 1680 is just painfully slow to me. I'm used to setting down and cranking out 3-500 rounds of .45 ACP on a Hornady LNL AP - which by the way is a fantastic press.

Unless and until someone comes along and has results that are more consistent than 22 SD and 7 ES and/or quieter, I don't see reason to move to a different powder. Yeah, I'll try RE7, AAC's suggested 1680 and the 2400, but IIRC the % of powder burned - part of my initial evaluation - was greater - i.e. 80% on LG than it was on 1680, which - and just tossing out a number here - may have been 60%. To me that means more efficient and cleaner. Same with HG powders - there is nothing even close to HP38/W231's burn rate - which is in the 90% range I think, yet people stick with TiteGroup, Universal and the like. I also use that single powder to load 40/45/38 spl/357 mag - you can even use it for 9MM, but I don't own a 9MM.

Todd's point is well taken on the thought perhaps I already have a suitable load when I have a SD of 7. I looked at some forums with ammo data and VERY few, less than a handful, had a SD lower than 10. Being the kind of person I am though (a hard-headed, caustic, perfectionist, SOB), I want 1030 FPS, ES of 20 or less, ES of less than 10. I have 200 loaded, but simply haven't had the time to drag my gear and test.

Yeah, if I got 2500 80g projos for free, I'd bee looking for a way to use them too. The sabots for all them will run about $250. Try negotiation 50 or something for testing, see if they work decent enough for plinking ammo - no reason they shouldn't.

You give me a powder, COAL and what not, I'll certainly see what data QL generates.

[Maryland_Shooter]

I get similar insane ES numbers ... IMHIO it is on the edge of un acctable..

1105 -664 in one string 15 shots ES=440 fps omit the hi n low and

1076
735
= ES of 341 still

Hand weighed 10.5 gr A1680 with a 190 gr bullet

Switch to American select with same bullet same brass worst ES= 58 but most are around 20-30 fps ES

Seems to be a common problem. As my OP stated, I can't overstate the improvement I saw when using the Lee FCD. Crimp 'em, on the heavy side of medium.

[Maryland_Shooter]

Extreme spreads (ES) and standard deviations (SD) are unacceptably high in many cases, although with 200g Sierra Game Kings, I got as low as 7, 16 and 20 as SD, bad news was those loads fell way short of my 1050 FPS velocity target, averaging 1011 FPS.

If you have a load that functions well and is accurate at 1011 FFS I would run with it. That 39 FPS doesn't really give you much with subs, and as a plus it probably won't crack in the winter.

Agreed. My 1050 loads are NOT usable in the winter. They are also noiser due to bullet flight noise. 975 fps is noticably quieter. If I can get good numbers and cycling at 1000-1020 Im happy. Even in the winter 1000 fps can have a crack due to ES. SOOO my winter loads I target 950-975 fps as the target FPS.

I also did penetration/expansion testing , but not in any organized manner. Next outing after chrono, I'll do P/E tesing (using phone books taped together), tag and bag the results and post them with photos. If the expansion at 975 isn't significantly less than at 1050, then 975 it will be.

[Maryland_Shooter]

Extreme spreads (ES) and standard deviations (SD) are unacceptably high in many cases, although with 200g Sierra Game Kings, I got as low as 7, 16 and 20 as SD, bad news was those loads fell way short of my 1050 FPS velocity target, averaging 1011 FPS.

If you have a load that functions well and is accurate at 1011 FFS I would run with it. That 39 FPS doesn't really give you much with subs, and as a plus it probably won't crack in the winter.

Good point . . . striving for perfection often leads me to overlook "acceptable."

[JohnInNH]

YES 231 is a super powder.

Just loaded and tested a bunch of 9mm using Win 231 at 3.8-3.9 gr (powder measure) 147 gr Berry's plated bullets Win small Pistol primers. gave excellent #s in my Sig 226 around 960 FPS Very quiet, clean, no reason to not stay with it. After the day of frustration trying to get an AR load for my 208 A-Max with good numbers this was a pleasure ES around 10!

[Maryland_Shooter]

The only time I get off HP38/W231 is when I feel the need for speed and go to Power Pistol.

It has a burn rate of less than 70%, flecks of burned/unburned powder will fall on your arms/hands and it has quiet a flash.

However, I can get a 185g JHP - going at 1050 to 1100 FPS and let me tell you, oh it'll be obvious when you pull that trigger.

I don't run them much at all (in my 1911s) because I have to swap to a heavier recoil spring. I'd have to check my loading notes, but IIRC, max was like 9.5g of PP and I was running like 8.5 or maybe 8.7. Bottom line, when someone pulls the trigger, they know right away something's up.