Hodgdon Lil'Gun Load Data Only ***5 Best Loads Page 16*****

[Maryland_Shooter]

It should work.

We're polluting the "Lil'Gun Only" thread with tangential references to other powders.

[StorminNormin]

So today I tested some worked up loads of the Sierra 220gr OTM. I just got a Shooting Chrony Master Beta to check velocities.

My rifle is a Noveske 10" 300BLK
Pistol length gas system
10", 1:7
H2 Buffer

LC 5.56, reformed to 300BLK
CCI 400 Small Rifle Primer
Hodgdon lilgun
2.120" OAL
Medium crimp on Lee FCD


I started at 8.3gn to 8.7gn and fired 10 rounds of each; first 5 shots unsuppressed and second 5 suppressed. None would cycle unsuppressed and all would cycle and hold the bolt back after the last round when suppressed. I noticed these rounds had about a 3 inch drop when shooting at 50 yards compared to supersonic rounds being spot on.

Velocities:
Unsuppressed Velocities:
8.3 - AVG 1030 ES 82
8.4 - AVG 1026 ES 30
8.5 - AVG 1043 ES 22
8.6 - AVG 1061 ES 29
8.7 - AVG 1051 ES 61

Suppressed Velocities:
8.3 - AVG 1050 ES 21
8.4 - AVG 1049 ES 37
8.5 - AVG 1047 ES 65
8.6 - AVG 1068 ES 51
8.7 - AVG 1081 ES 34

Is it common for it not to cycle unsuppressed? With factory 220gr my rifle will cycle suppressed or unsuppressed. I am also curious if the 3" drop at 50 yards is common as well. The 8.6gn was pretty accurate, but I am wondering if I should continue to load higher as I saw no signs of pressure on the cases.

You paid a lot of $ for that upper and IMHO it should run unsuppressed. BUT if factory subs work, the flaw is in the reloads and I'm gonna put my money on headspace/shoulder position. I'd bet $, the shoulder is not SAAMI spec dimension, brass doesn't expand properly trapping the gas, so it won't cycle.

Of course I could be wrong.

OK, so I got in some Remington 300 BLK primed brass and decided to load up some Sierra 220gr OTM to see if it will cycle unsuppressed with factory brass. I did change my OAL to 2.190" and tested Lil' Gun from 8.7gr to 9.4gr and all would not cycle the bolt unsuppressed and function fine suppressed. 8.9gr Lil' Gun was the most accurate suppressed, and unsuppressed it was all over the place. I am still experiencing about a 3" bullet drop at 50 yards. Today I could not use the chrono at the range I went to.



I think I am just going to shoot this suppressed only since that is the only way it functions perfectly and I guess I should anyways since it is subsonic.

So I like 8.6gr Lil' Gun @ 2.120" OAL and 8.9gr Lil' Gun @ 2.190" OAL.

[RAPR]

I'm looking for a little input from you guys that have been reloading with lil gun for a while. I just finished my first test rounds with lil gun and noticed it produces lower velocities than H110. I thought that lil gun was suppose to have a higher burn rate than H110, but it produced lower velocities than my H110 test rounds. Below is my setup info and results:

custom 16" AR with 1:7 Noveske barrel, pistol adjustible gas
125 Hornady SST
400CCI primer
Resized LC Brass cut to 1.352" with 24.3gr of H2O
COL:2.110"
light crimp w/ Lee FCD
lil gun powder
outside temp 90F
5 round of each loading
all loads measured with RCBS ChargeMaster1500

load (gr)-------case capacity (%)------velocity (fps)
16.5------------91.1%-----------------1951, 1891, 1937, 1946, 1934
16.8 -----------92.8%-----------------2004, 1848, 1845, 1877, 1973
17.1------------94.5%-----------------1902, 1890, 1986, 1866, 1929
17.3------------95.6%-----------------1862, 1869, 1876, 1923, 1972
17.5------------96.7%-----------------1974, 1953, 1938, 1971, 1864
17.7------------97.8%-----------------1920, 1897, 1932, 1948, 1951
17.8------------98.3%-----------------2082, 1931, 1940, 1991, 1991
17.9------------98.9%-----------------1982, 1954, 1975, 1963, 2012
18.0------------99.4%-----------------1986, 1978, 2033, 2006, 1998
18.1------------100.0%----------------2017, 2048, 1944, 2037, 1985

I was expecting more velocity out of this powder, according to the online reloading information. I didn't have any 'high pressure' signs, but I don't really see that I can increase my powder load, since i'm already at 100% fill capacity. I also don't really see this powder ever finding a 'sweet spot' for having consistent velocities (18.0gr being the best).

Comparing these test loads with my favorite H110 load (same round specs except 17.8gr of H110) and I get a very consistent 2038-2048fps.

Is lil gun just not a consistent powder for this weight bullet or am I just having bad luck?

[Maryland_Shooter]

No, I think it is pretty inconsistent and Hodgdon lists the 125 Nosler, using 18g of Lil'Gun at 2,185

I am typically 100+ fps slower.

Annealing and that crimp help some, but others report the same thing with 1680, I haven't tested or seen enough H110 results to speak to its performance.

[RAPR]

Whats funny is the Hornady manual lists 'safe' loadings up to 20gr of powder w/ COL of 2.100".....which would definitely be a compressed load. I didn't dare try doing a compressed load, but is there much risk in doing it? Will it make it even more inconsistent?

Is lil gun more consistent with heavier bullets, or did I just buy 8lbs of plinking powder?

As for your comment of H110 performance, you can see my testing results on this link:
viewtopic.php?f=141&t=81558

Sorry for mentioning H110 in this thread...I know its frowned upon

[Maryland_Shooter]

Compressed loads are not inherently unsafe, but they may be subject to pressure variations with temp.

I like Lil'Gun, available, works and cheap, so . . . what's not to like?

A poster in this thread had some 50 yard accuracy tests that were acceptable IMHO.

I think A-A1680 is dirty and louder, but have not tried H110 or W296.

[RAPR]

So if I'm getting higher velocities from H110 vs lilgun with the same powder loading, would that mean that the online sources saying lilgun has a higher burn rate be incorrect? I'm confused at this point.

[talonxracer]

Lil'Gun is actually a slower burning powder than H110, not by much but it is slower.

[Maryland_Shooter]

So if I'm getting higher velocities from H110 vs lilgun with the same powder loading, would that mean that the online sources saying lilgun has a higher burn rate be incorrect? I'm confused at this point.

The number are based on both mathematical models and testing. With powder lots differing up to 5%, every barrel being different, no environmental stats (elevation, temp, humidity, etc.) supplied, you'll always get different results.

[Maryland_Shooter]

Lil'Gun is actually a slower burning powder than H110, not by much but it is slower.

Not according to Western Powder's Burn Rate Chart, along with Hodgdon and every other one I saw.

It's a smidge faster, so say the charts.

Do you have a burn chart that shows Lil'Gun being slower?