New Powder???

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USCS
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New Powder???

Post by USCS » Wed Mar 30, 2022 2:14 am

I’ve been using Alliant’s MP300 for my supersonic 125 gr general purpose loads for a few years now. I’m wondering if there are any new powders I should look at. I am getting to the end of my MP 300 supply so if I’m going to change, now is the time. I’d want as much velocity as possible while maintaining safety and accuracy. I probably should mention I run these loads through AR15s. Thanks for the information?

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TRshootem
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Re: New Powder???

Post by TRshootem » Wed Mar 30, 2022 1:34 pm

300 MP, W296 and H110 are all quite similar, made from the same base product but with minor burn difference (can't find the info on this at the moment). I use a lot of the 300MP and the others, beyond those I would look for the 4227's, 1680, LT-30, N120 and others in that suitable burn rate spread. Best of luck finding some of those.

TR

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Re: New Powder???

Post by attila. » Thu Mar 31, 2022 1:21 am

USCS wrote:
Wed Mar 30, 2022 2:14 am
I’ve been using Alliant’s MP300 for my supersonic 125 gr general purpose loads for a few years now. I’m wondering if there are any new powders I should look at. I am getting to the end of my MP 300 supply so if I’m going to change, now is the time. I’d want as much velocity as possible while maintaining safety and accuracy. I probably should mention I run these loads through AR15s. Thanks for the information?
Check out Shooters World SBR-Socom (D063-01). Next slowest from them would be Shooters World Blackout (D063-02)

TRshootem wrote:
Wed Mar 30, 2022 1:34 pm
300 MP, W296 and H110 are all quite similar, made from the same base product but with minor burn difference (can't find the info on this at the moment). I use a lot of the 300MP and the others, beyond those I would look for the 4227's, 1680, LT-30, N120 and others in that suitable burn rate spread. Best of luck finding some of those.

TR
Idk about 300MP, but H110 and W296 are the same product with different labels. Hodgdon rep confirmed this for me over the phone.

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Re: New Powder???

Post by 20X11 » Thu Mar 31, 2022 9:51 am

You'll be hard pressed to find a better supersonic powder for 300blk than 300MP.
It's clean, meters well, very consistent and predictable throughout the load range, and is temperature stable.

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Re: New Powder???

Post by bangbangping » Thu Mar 31, 2022 10:50 am

attila. wrote:
Thu Mar 31, 2022 1:21 am
Check out Shooters World SBR-Socom (D063-01).
Have you used SOCOM for 110-125 grain bullets? It's billed as really shining with 150 grain bullets in the 300 BLK.

FWIW in my (admittedly limited) tests with the 130 grain Speer, SOCOM showed pressure signs at lower velocities than did W296.

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Re: New Powder???

Post by USCS » Tue Apr 05, 2022 8:09 am

Thanks for the info. Hopefully we’ll see powder availability again in quantities sufficient to try a couple of different brands.

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Re: New Powder???

Post by attila. » Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:26 pm

bangbangping wrote:
Thu Mar 31, 2022 10:50 am
attila. wrote:
Thu Mar 31, 2022 1:21 am
Check out Shooters World SBR-Socom (D063-01).
Have you used SOCOM for 110-125 grain bullets? It's billed as really shining with 150 grain bullets in the 300 BLK.

FWIW in my (admittedly limited) tests with the 130 grain Speer, SOCOM showed pressure signs at lower velocities than did W296.
I apologize for the very late reply, but I only just got around to doing a controlled pressure test to find SW SBR-Socom's limit with medium-weight supers in my gun. I have and enjoy H110/W296 for 110 grain bullets, so I didn't test them today. I used the 150 SST (308, not Savage) and 125 NBT, since those are what I have an abundance of in the desired weight range. As a point of reference, some time ago, I measured the factory Barnes 110 black tips at approximately 2,250 fps out of my 10.5" barrel. That's 1236 lb-ft of energy, and the minimum that I was hoping to achieve today. I exceeded that energy target comfortably, so the short answer is that Socom is an excellent powder for 125-150 grain bullets.
On to the data and commentary that I hope you find helpful or at least interesting...


I used Shooters World load data to create a pressure test ladder for the 150 SST, taking it 0.5 grains higher than their manual says. I ended up getting excessive pressure signs way before their manual says I should, but every barrel/gun is different, and this is why we do these tests. The velocity and energy numbers were excellent the whole way up, so I can't complain about early pressure signs. All it does is cost me less powder per round.
I think I'll stick to about 20.4 grains of SW Socom as my absolute max with the 150 SST.

Pressure Test - 2 shots each load
150 SST - 2.20" - D063-01 SBR-Socom - LC brass - Wolf SR primers - 10.5" PWS 1:8 twist
charge--------#1--------#2-------Remarks---------------------------------------------------FPS------lb-ft
19.5----------1916-----1903-----one slight ejector mark------------------------------- 1909.5 - 1214.2
19.8----------1926-----1932-----slight ejector mark and slight extractor pull------ 1929.0 - 1239.1
20.1----------1957-----1942-----slight ejector mark and slight extractor pull------ 1949.5 - 1265.6
20.4----------1970-----1964-----slight ejector mark and slight extractor pull------ 1967.0 - 1288.4
20.7----------2013-----2001-----light ejector burr and extractor pull---------------- 2007.0 - 1341.4
21.0----------2009-----1998-----major ejector burr, extr pull, one popped primer 2003.5 - 1336.7
21.3 --------------------Did not shoot--------------------
21.5 --------------------Did not shoot--------------------


I used Shooters World load data to start a pressure test ladder for the 125 NBT as well, exceeding what their manual says by 1.1 grains, since their max load showed <40,000 psi.
Strangely, all loads, from the lowest to the highest loads exhibited ejector shininess. This was also seen in the 150 SST test. This pressure symptom may just be part of my gun's character, as there were no other/major pressure signs with the 125 NBT loads. Primers all still had plenty of roundness, and there were no extractor pull marks. I therefore consider all loads to be within my comfort zone with regard to pressure signs.
The only weirdness I found was that the top 2 loads had one each of unexpectedly low fps numbers. The velocity and energy columns do not include this data, since all other loads tested today ranged from 1-15 fps apart, but these two sets of readings were 107 and 84 fps apart. That sounds to me like a chrony error.
I think I'll call 22.1 grains my absolute max for the 125 NBT, since I don't feel like flirting with danger above what I've already tested.

Pressure Test - 2 shots each load
125 NBT - 2.15" - D063-01 SBR-Socom - LC brass - Wolf SR primers - 10.5" PWS 1:8 twist
charge--------#1--------#2-------Remarks----------------------------------------------------- FPS------lb-ft
20.3----------2026-----2031-----one fine, one shiny ejector mark---------------------- 2028.5 - 1141.9
20.6----------2047-----2044-----one fine, one shiny ejector mark---------------------- 2045.5 - 1161.1
20.9----------2076-----2072-----ejector shininess------------------------------------------ 2074.0 - 1193.7
21.2----------2095-----2096-----ejector shininess, one slight burr---------------------- 2095.5 - 1218.6
21.5----------2118-----2109-----ejector shininess------------------------------------------ 2113.5 - 1239.6
21.8----------2148-----2041----ejector shininess------------------------------------------ 2148.0 - 1280.4
22.1----------2067-----2151----ejector shininess------------------------------------------ 2151.0 - 1284.0

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Re: New Powder???

Post by dellet » Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:56 pm

attila. wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:26 pm
bangbangping wrote:
Thu Mar 31, 2022 10:50 am
attila. wrote:
Thu Mar 31, 2022 1:21 am
Check out Shooters World SBR-Socom (D063-01).
Have you used SOCOM for 110-125 grain bullets? It's billed as really shining with 150 grain bullets in the 300 BLK.

FWIW in my (admittedly limited) tests with the 130 grain Speer, SOCOM showed pressure signs at lower velocities than did W296.
I apologize for the very late reply, but I only just got around to doing a controlled pressure test to find SW SBR-Socom's limit with medium-weight supers in my gun. I have and enjoy H110/W296 for 110 grain bullets, so I didn't test them today. I used the 150 SST (308, not Savage) and 125 NBT, since those are what I have an abundance of in the desired weight range. As a point of reference, some time ago, I measured the factory Barnes 110 black tips at approximately 2,250 fps out of my 10.5" barrel. That's 1236 lb-ft of energy, and the minimum that I was hoping to achieve today. I exceeded that energy target comfortably, so the short answer is that Socom is an excellent powder for 125-150 grain bullets.
On to the data and commentary that I hope you find helpful or at least interesting...


I used Shooters World load data to create a pressure test ladder for the 150 SST, taking it 0.5 grains higher than their manual says. I ended up getting excessive pressure signs way before their manual says I should, but every barrel/gun is different, and this is why we do these tests. The velocity and energy numbers were excellent the whole way up, so I can't complain about early pressure signs. All it does is cost me less powder per round.
I think I'll stick to about 20.4 grains of SW Socom as my absolute max with the 150 SST.

Pressure Test - 2 shots each load
150 SST - 2.20" - D063-01 SBR-Socom - LC brass - Wolf SR primers - 10.5" PWS 1:8 twist
charge--------#1--------#2-------Remarks---------------------------------------------------FPS------lb-ft
19.5----------1916-----1903-----one slight ejector mark------------------------------- 1909.5 - 1214.2
19.8----------1926-----1932-----slight ejector mark and slight extractor pull------ 1929.0 - 1239.1
20.1----------1957-----1942-----slight ejector mark and slight extractor pull------ 1949.5 - 1265.6
20.4----------1970-----1964-----slight ejector mark and slight extractor pull------ 1967.0 - 1288.4
20.7----------2013-----2001-----light ejector burr and extractor pull---------------- 2007.0 - 1341.4
21.0----------2009-----1998-----major ejector burr, extr pull, one popped primer 2003.5 - 1336.7
21.3 --------------------Did not shoot--------------------
21.5 --------------------Did not shoot--------------------


I used Shooters World load data to start a pressure test ladder for the 125 NBT as well, exceeding what their manual says by 1.1 grains, since their max load showed <40,000 psi.
Strangely, all loads, from the lowest to the highest loads exhibited ejector shininess. This was also seen in the 150 SST test. This pressure symptom may just be part of my gun's character, as there were no other/major pressure signs with the 125 NBT loads. Primers all still had plenty of roundness, and there were no extractor pull marks. I therefore consider all loads to be within my comfort zone with regard to pressure signs.
The only weirdness I found was that the top 2 loads had one each of unexpectedly low fps numbers. The velocity and energy columns do not include this data, since all other loads tested today ranged from 1-15 fps apart, but these two sets of readings were 107 and 84 fps apart. That sounds to me like a chrony error.
I think I'll call 22.1 grains my absolute max for the 125 NBT, since I don't feel like flirting with danger above what I've already tested.

Pressure Test - 2 shots each load
125 NBT - 2.15" - D063-01 SBR-Socom - LC brass - Wolf SR primers - 10.5" PWS 1:8 twist
charge--------#1--------#2-------Remarks----------------------------------------------------- FPS------lb-ft
20.3----------2026-----2031-----one fine, one shiny ejector mark---------------------- 2028.5 - 1141.9
20.6----------2047-----2044-----one fine, one shiny ejector mark---------------------- 2045.5 - 1161.1
20.9----------2076-----2072-----ejector shininess------------------------------------------ 2074.0 - 1193.7
21.2----------2095-----2096-----ejector shininess, one slight burr---------------------- 2095.5 - 1218.6
21.5----------2118-----2109-----ejector shininess------------------------------------------ 2113.5 - 1239.6
21.8----------2148-----2041----ejector shininess------------------------------------------ 2148.0 - 1280.4
22.1----------2067-----2151----ejector shininess------------------------------------------ 2151.0 - 1284.0
Considering you changed bullets, brass, primers and seated depth of the bullet. Then started at near max loads. It should not be any surprise at all that you had pressure signs.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.

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Re: New Powder???

Post by attila. » Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:09 pm

dellet wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:56 pm
attila. wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:26 pm
bangbangping wrote:
Thu Mar 31, 2022 10:50 am

Have you used SOCOM for 110-125 grain bullets? It's billed as really shining with 150 grain bullets in the 300 BLK.

FWIW in my (admittedly limited) tests with the 130 grain Speer, SOCOM showed pressure signs at lower velocities than did W296.
I apologize for the very late reply, but I only just got around to doing a controlled pressure test to find SW SBR-Socom's limit with medium-weight supers in my gun. I have and enjoy H110/W296 for 110 grain bullets, so I didn't test them today. I used the 150 SST (308, not Savage) and 125 NBT, since those are what I have an abundance of in the desired weight range. As a point of reference, some time ago, I measured the factory Barnes 110 black tips at approximately 2,250 fps out of my 10.5" barrel. That's 1236 lb-ft of energy, and the minimum that I was hoping to achieve today. I exceeded that energy target comfortably, so the short answer is that Socom is an excellent powder for 125-150 grain bullets.
On to the data and commentary that I hope you find helpful or at least interesting...


I used Shooters World load data to create a pressure test ladder for the 150 SST, taking it 0.5 grains higher than their manual says. I ended up getting excessive pressure signs way before their manual says I should, but every barrel/gun is different, and this is why we do these tests. The velocity and energy numbers were excellent the whole way up, so I can't complain about early pressure signs. All it does is cost me less powder per round.
I think I'll stick to about 20.4 grains of SW Socom as my absolute max with the 150 SST.

Pressure Test - 2 shots each load
150 SST - 2.20" - D063-01 SBR-Socom - LC brass - Wolf SR primers - 10.5" PWS 1:8 twist
charge--------#1--------#2-------Remarks---------------------------------------------------FPS------lb-ft
19.5----------1916-----1903-----one slight ejector mark------------------------------- 1909.5 - 1214.2
19.8----------1926-----1932-----slight ejector mark and slight extractor pull------ 1929.0 - 1239.1
20.1----------1957-----1942-----slight ejector mark and slight extractor pull------ 1949.5 - 1265.6
20.4----------1970-----1964-----slight ejector mark and slight extractor pull------ 1967.0 - 1288.4
20.7----------2013-----2001-----light ejector burr and extractor pull---------------- 2007.0 - 1341.4
21.0----------2009-----1998-----major ejector burr, extr pull, one popped primer 2003.5 - 1336.7
21.3 --------------------Did not shoot--------------------
21.5 --------------------Did not shoot--------------------


I used Shooters World load data to start a pressure test ladder for the 125 NBT as well, exceeding what their manual says by 1.1 grains, since their max load showed <40,000 psi.
Strangely, all loads, from the lowest to the highest loads exhibited ejector shininess. This was also seen in the 150 SST test. This pressure symptom may just be part of my gun's character, as there were no other/major pressure signs with the 125 NBT loads. Primers all still had plenty of roundness, and there were no extractor pull marks. I therefore consider all loads to be within my comfort zone with regard to pressure signs.
The only weirdness I found was that the top 2 loads had one each of unexpectedly low fps numbers. The velocity and energy columns do not include this data, since all other loads tested today ranged from 1-15 fps apart, but these two sets of readings were 107 and 84 fps apart. That sounds to me like a chrony error.
I think I'll call 22.1 grains my absolute max for the 125 NBT, since I don't feel like flirting with danger above what I've already tested.

Pressure Test - 2 shots each load
125 NBT - 2.15" - D063-01 SBR-Socom - LC brass - Wolf SR primers - 10.5" PWS 1:8 twist
charge--------#1--------#2-------Remarks----------------------------------------------------- FPS------lb-ft
20.3----------2026-----2031-----one fine, one shiny ejector mark---------------------- 2028.5 - 1141.9
20.6----------2047-----2044-----one fine, one shiny ejector mark---------------------- 2045.5 - 1161.1
20.9----------2076-----2072-----ejector shininess------------------------------------------ 2074.0 - 1193.7
21.2----------2095-----2096-----ejector shininess, one slight burr---------------------- 2095.5 - 1218.6
21.5----------2118-----2109-----ejector shininess------------------------------------------ 2113.5 - 1239.6
21.8----------2148-----2041----ejector shininess------------------------------------------ 2148.0 - 1280.4
22.1----------2067-----2151----ejector shininess------------------------------------------ 2151.0 - 1284.0
Considering you changed bullets, brass, primers and seated depth of the bullet. Then started at near max loads. It should not be any surprise at all that you had pressure signs.
Thanks for the reply. I agree. I did expect some pressure signs, as finding reasonable max in my barrel with my component combination was a purpose of my test.

The big surprise was a popped primer at an entire grain less powder than the SW manual max load, which they say is <55,000 psi. You're right, that 0.080” deeper seating depth with the 150 SST on top of the other factors can change things much more drastically than I thought.

Another thing that might be contributing to signs is excess headspace. I had that happen in 277WLV. I had pressure signs at much lower velocities than others were seeing from the same combination. After some enlightening conversations, I changed from full length sizing with 0.012” shoulder bump to more carefully sizing just 0.002-0.003”, and signs went away. That was a very cool revelation! I haven’t had the chance yet today, but I do intend to compare a fire-formed case to the primed brass that I am using (still using what I primed in 2014 cuz I shoot so little).

Thanks again!

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Re: New Powder???

Post by dellet » Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:07 pm

attila. wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:26 pm

Thanks for the reply. I agree. I did expect some pressure signs, as finding reasonable max in my barrel with my component combination was a purpose of my test.

The big surprise was a popped primer at an entire grain less powder than the SW manual max load, which they say is <55,000 psi. You're right, that 0.080” deeper seating depth with the 150 SST on top of the other factors can change things much more drastically than I thought.

Another thing that might be contributing to signs is excess headspace. I had that happen in 277WLV. I had pressure signs at much lower velocities than others were seeing from the same combination. After some enlightening conversations, I changed from full length sizing with 0.012” shoulder bump to more carefully sizing just 0.002-0.003”, and signs went away. That was a very cool revelation! I haven’t had the chance yet today, but I do intend to compare a fire-formed case to the primed brass that I am using (still using what I primed in 2014 cuz I shoot so little).

Thanks again!
Before it was Socom, I’m pretty sure it was Lovex D063-01. A canister grade powder. SW Blackout is D063-02 and supposed to be 1680.
I got some D063-01 real early and Plant One had a source that was a commercial loader. A few others got ahold of some also. The consensus was that it was a pretty hot 1680, you needed to drop about a grain using 1680 data. You might compare your results to some of those loads and see if that stacks up.

Way back in time I did a thread called Extreme Blackout. Detailed my brass prepping and gas systems. Basically running bolt action pressures with out ejector smears and extractor marks. A huge portion of that was minimal resizing of the brass like you are doing. It increases case capacity just over 1 full grain, about 5%. That’s huge.

2000 fps from a 10” barrel is pushing it hard, primer pockets don’t last long :lol:

Good to see you visit again. Not too many of the old crowd checking in
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.

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