Little Crow Gunworks - WFT2 issues with formed brass

Moderators: gds, bakerjw, renegade, bamachem

cmax95
Member
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:22 am

Little Crow Gunworks - WFT2 issues with formed brass

Post by cmax95 »

I just started forming my own brass for 300 BLK using once fired LC 5.56 brass that I have cut down using a jig from squirreldaddy.com. My process has been the following:

1.Take the LC 5.56 brass, insert in the squirrel daddy jig and cut down to the preset length using a Harbor Freight 2" chop saw
2.Using a Lyman case prep station, knock off the big burrs on the case mouth.
3.Once the case mouth is somewhat cleaned up I lube with imperial sizing wax and form the case with a Redding FL sizing die (set to the same headspace as I resize for all my other 300 BLK brass).

After the above steps are completed I, in a perfect world, will use the new WFT2 with the 300 BLK Trim Chamber installed, and trim length set up using a Hornady Modified Case, to trim down the brass to spec and then complete the case prep just like it was regular 300 BLK factory brass.

The issue that I am having is that the WFT2 will not seem to trim the newly formed brass down to the correct length every time and the brass is very hard to remove from the trim chamber when it does finish taking material off.

Has anyone else used the WFT2 and had a similar issue? If so, have you come up with a work around? It's going to be a pain to have to hand trim 1,000 pieces of formed brass, especially after purchasing a trimmer to help do the job.
pj-schmidt
Silent Operator
Posts: 64
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:08 am

Re: Little Crow Gunworks - WFT2 issues with formed brass

Post by pj-schmidt »

Does your brass fit in a chamber gage? Sheridan is the best. Wilson head space gage is nearly worthless for forming.

A very common problem for people new to converting brass is that the brass is not actually in spec even after going through the sizing die. Forming has much higher forces and increased spring-back compared to normal resizing. Put another way, if the die was set correctly for resizing, it is unlikely it will produce in spec formed brass.

You should be applying liberal amounts of lube for forming. Imperial is great for resizing, but I'm not certain it's a great option for forming (but I've never tried it). I use DCL. Bottom line expect to use more lube when forming compared to resizing.

Make sure the brass you're converting is not too thick in the neck section.
cmax95
Member
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:22 am

Re: Little Crow Gunworks - WFT2 issues with formed brass

Post by cmax95 »

Thanks for that info. I don't have a case gauge yet for 300 BLK due to the seemingly never ending shortages of reloading supplies for major calibers. I did notice that if I run the cases through the die twice that it got a little better. Maybe that helps take some of the spring back out.

I also have a set of the RCBS small base dies, would setting those up for use in forming the brass maybe work better due to them being small base dies?

From what I've read here and on other forums, plus what I've seen from sample testing the LC brass I'm converting, the neck thickness is within spec for 300 BLK so far.
User avatar
dellet
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 6967
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:25 pm

Re: Little Crow Gunworks - WFT2 issues with formed brass

Post by dellet »

There are a couple things going on.

First is that the WFT does not trim/adjust overall length. It trims neck length. So if you set the trimmer using the modified case as a guide it will have the same neck length as the modified case, not necessarily the same overall length, unless it was formed in the die setting.

Your brass will need to be exactly the same length from base to shoulder before you can ever hope to have the same overall length. Solve your forming problem first.

Forming problems with converted brass are endless. Different makes, different lots of the same make, fired in different rifles at different pressures, different hardness, annealed to different depths. If you want quality brass from converted you have a lot of work to do and more tools to buy, so you can measure the brass properly, not a case gauge. First would be a way to measure base to shoulder datum line like a comparator.

As far as brass clogging the trimmer, the brass needs all lube removed before trimming and then how you hold it will make a huge difference. Case down allows the shavings to fall out instead of into the trimmer.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.
cmax95
Member
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:22 am

Re: Little Crow Gunworks - WFT2 issues with formed brass

Post by cmax95 »

Dellet, that's a lot of good info that I wasn't aware of. I have a hornady headspace set, so I will make sure that I have consistent base to shoulder measurements for all brass being run through the trimmer from initial setup to actual use.

I didn't even consider the issue with removal being caused by lube buildup. I will have to switch up my processing steps to ensure that the lube from forming is removed before trimming.

I'll post an update on the way things work out after my next session.

You brought up the annealing process, so I wanted to get your opinion on whether it is worth the initial cost to start annealing if this converted brass is going to be used only for subsonic loads?
User avatar
dellet
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 6967
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:25 pm

Re: Little Crow Gunworks - WFT2 issues with formed brass

Post by dellet »

The amount of brass prep needed, is directly related to accuracy expectations. That includes annealing.

All bottle neck brass is annealed before and after forming, so when you chop off the necks, you remove some or all of that softer brass. If you want 1/2 MOA accuracy at 200 yards with subs, you will probably want to anneal and sort brass by headstamp. If you want to shoot 3" gongs at 50 yards, I would not even worry about the difference in neck length you are having now.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.
cmax95
Member
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:22 am

Re: Little Crow Gunworks - WFT2 issues with formed brass

Post by cmax95 »

Understood. So would you recommend annealing once the case has been trimmed to spec and is otherwise ready for primer and powder? Any recommendations on an annealer? I've looked at the annealeez in the past.
golfindia
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1380
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:16 pm

Re: Little Crow Gunworks - WFT2 issues with formed brass

Post by golfindia »

If you want to do it the 100% anal way, you should retrim after you fire form the brass anyway.

Until it's fire formed, it's just willy nilly.

Edit: if you don't have a carbide bit in the WFT, it's a good upgrade. It cuts cleaner and doesn't round over the edges as much.
User avatar
AR-300
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1351
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:26 pm
Location: Foothills NC

Re: Little Crow Gunworks - WFT2 issues with formed brass

Post by AR-300 »

Rounding over of the case is why it is hard to remove from the trimmer. Try chopping a little shorter in the initial cut so the trimmer doesn't have to work so hard. Blow out frequently with compressed or canned air.
PSA 10.5" & 16'' FN CHF CL 300 AAC Blackout
VinnAY
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 301
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:25 am

Re: Little Crow Gunworks - WFT2 issues with formed brass

Post by VinnAY »

When I convert brass I form it first with a double strike and then chop it and trim. I haven't noticed anything with the WFT except that all my blackout brass grows on firing more than any other rifle cal that I load. Whichever the trim to length is (I forget at the moment) these all trim quite a bit after every firing.
Too fire forming sounds cool to say it but means nothing in a semi-auto that you have to FLS, wipes out your 'fire form".
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 161 guests