What should I load based on this data?

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20X11
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Re: What should I load based on this data?

Post by 20X11 » Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:14 pm

Yep...sorry...OP, you stats are nothing without accuracy data.

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jtaylor996
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Re: What should I load based on this data?

Post by jtaylor996 » Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:19 pm

Regaj wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:47 pm
No signs of pressure with the Barnes load? Quickload shows your 20 gr. of H110 making 63,684 psi and 2259 fps (that's assuming an OAL of 2.247 and a total case capacity of 24.3 gr of water). YMMV, of course.

Your 19.2 gr of LilGun behind the Speer 125 gr TNT specs fine (41,974 psi and 1991 fps, using an OAL of 2.260)

I agree with the other comments that velocity and SD numbers alone aren't that great for nailing down a "best" load. You need to first have a very specific goal. Everything follows from that.
No pressure signs on the CCI450 primers. I'm using LC13 converted cases, but I'm not sure what the capacity is on them.

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Re: What should I load based on this data?

Post by jtaylor996 » Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:22 pm

20X11 wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:14 pm
Yep...sorry...OP, you stats are nothing without accuracy data.
Based on other advice here I was doing OCW method round robin ladders, with 3 shots each (only 2 shots on the barnes). So there's no accuracy data until I can load up 5 of each charge and shoot actual groups. I usually do that after I identify nodes, but I'm new to this rifle reloading thing so I'm accepting ideas... which is what this thread is about.

BJK
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Re: What should I load based on this data?

Post by BJK » Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:11 pm

FWIW, I don't think they're trying to argue with you. They're just pointing out that they don't have enough critical data to answer your question and they're letting you know what more is needed.

It was what I almost wrote when I first read your post a day or so ago but I didn't need to pile on since accuracy data had already been mentioned.

Frankly I couldn't care less about the stats other than to know the velocity. I care far more about what it does on paper. It might be that the loads with great stats also have the best accuracy, but that won't be known until it's proven. You need to spend some enjoyable time shooting some more. :D

Regaj
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Re: What should I load based on this data?

Post by Regaj » Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:23 pm

I'm not going to criticize Dan Newberry's brainchild - his OCW load development certainly brings to bear some interesting considerations. But it's also not something I would recommend to a new reloader.

Handloading has many arcane rabbit holes to explore, but when you're beginning I think there's much to be said for keeping it simple. Most of us reload with an eye towards accuracy, most of the time... and that's what I would recommend. Run a conventional ladder and see what you get. Keep good records.

Once you have a baseline - a load or loads that work well in your rifle(s) - you can explore some of the other basics... how seating depth and OAL affects things, how different brands of brass and different case capacities affect things. How changing type or brand of primer changes things. How a different bullet of the same weight behaves. How changing your sizing die might affect headspace. How a crimp - the type and the amount - changes things.

Those are all very basic things. I'd recommend getting a solid handle on them before exploring the more esoteric things like OCW development.

The good news is that it looks like you've got a chronograph. That changes everything.

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Re: What should I load based on this data?

Post by golfindia » Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:55 pm

Calculating the SD for an N of 3 is of no benefit whatsoever, statistically. But I'm open to hearing more about that.

jtaylor996
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Re: What should I load based on this data?

Post by jtaylor996 » Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:04 pm

golfindia wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:55 pm
Calculating the SD for an N of 3 is of no benefit whatsoever, statistically. But I'm open to hearing more about that.
I suspected as much. OCW doesn't really mention chronographs... this may be why. Still, the ES numbers may be telling me something.

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Re: What should I load based on this data?

Post by jtaylor996 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:14 pm

Regaj wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:47 pm
No signs of pressure with the Barnes load? Quickload shows your 20 gr. of H110 making 63,684 psi and 2259 fps (that's assuming an OAL of 2.247 and a total case capacity of 24.3 gr of water). YMMV, of course.

Your 19.2 gr of LilGun behind the Speer 125 gr TNT specs fine (41,974 psi and 1991 fps, using an OAL of 2.260)

I agree with the other comments that velocity and SD numbers alone aren't that great for nailing down a "best" load. You need to first have a very specific goal. Everything follows from that.
Can you tell me what QL says about the 19.2gr and 19.6gr loads? My OAL is 2.250" in LC converted brass.

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Re: What should I load based on this data?

Post by Regaj » Thu Nov 26, 2020 4:36 pm

jtaylor996 wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:14 pm
Regaj wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:47 pm
No signs of pressure with the Barnes load? Quickload shows your 20 gr. of H110 making 63,684 psi and 2259 fps (that's assuming an OAL of 2.247 and a total case capacity of 24.3 gr of water). YMMV, of course.

Your 19.2 gr of LilGun behind the Speer 125 gr TNT specs fine (41,974 psi and 1991 fps, using an OAL of 2.260)

I agree with the other comments that velocity and SD numbers alone aren't that great for nailing down a "best" load. You need to first have a very specific goal. Everything follows from that.
Can you tell me what QL says about the 19.2gr and 19.6gr loads? My OAL is 2.250" in LC converted brass.

Happy to run those number for you. Before I do, you want to confirm which version of the Barnes .30 110gr. you're loading? Barnes makes a 300BLK-specific version of that bullet (SKU #30321) in addition to a generic .30-cal version (SKU #30358). When I mentioned before that your 20.0 load showed over-pressure in QL, that was using the 300BLK-specific version. Since you're not seeing pressure signs, I'm guessing you may be loading the generic version (which QL does not show over-pressure with 20.0gr of H110).

Let me know which SKU you're using and I'll run the numbers for your 19.2 and 19.6 loads.

For anyone interested, the difference between the two Barnes 110gr. bullets... the 300BLK-specific version is slightly longer.

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dellet
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Re: What should I load based on this data?

Post by dellet » Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:31 pm

For what it’s worth, Barnes max is 20.2 grains. Case capacity will make the difference as well as powder lot number.

https://www.barnesbullets.com/wp-conten ... ForWeb.pdf

If you compare 296 with H110 in quickload you get an idea of what the difference can be.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.

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