Issue with forming 300 BLK from 223

[madmosche]

Update - I think I figured out the issue. I got the new Lee Challenger Press today, and when I set up the RCBS die on the new press I was having the exact same issue as before. So I started looking at other things, and just for giggles I removed the entire decapping/expander piece from the RCBS die and tried forming - BINGO! When I form the chopped-down 223 cases without the decap/expander part in the die, now they pass the Lyman gauge perfectly and sit right at the lower shelf. For some reason though, now the very end of the case mouths are getting belled out by the sizing die - see photo here: https://imgur.com/isn36HE. I'm pretty sure this is just the part which is going to be trimmed off anyway - this is after chopping & sizing but before final trimming. But should I be concerned about this or about resizing the cases without using the decap/expander part in the die? I typically decap separately anyway but it's obvious the case mouths look different with the expander removed vs installed.

And the million dollar question- why would the decap/expander piece be interfering with the function of the sizing die? In case I forgot to mention, all of the 223 cases were deprimed separately before starting the conversion to 300 BLK.

[madmosche]

The 2nd issue I've noticed is that when resizing, the shell plate doesn't seem to be making full contact with the bottom of the sizing die even when I'm really pushing hard on the handle. Without a case in the shellholder, it's definitely making contact. When I put a case in and run it up into the die, there is a little gap, see the photo here: https://imgur.com/Ai4VxmK Anyone have ideas what could be causing this? I'm assuming this shouldn't be happening.

[Omega]

What is your OAL before forming? Looks like your case may be too long before you form and it is hitting the mouth before you get a full length size on your case.

[madmosche]

What is your OAL before forming? Looks like your case may be too long before you form and it is hitting the mouth before you get a full length size on your case.

1.380" after chopping them on the harbor freight saw.

[Sig220]

What is your OAL before forming? Looks like your case may be too long before you form and it is hitting the mouth before you get a full length size on your case.

I am in agreement, I think your case length before forming is too long. After all they do stretch out a little during forming. As far as using your expander ball/decapping pin during resizing...... I think you need to adjust the depth of the expander ball/decapping pin. It should be set to decap a primer whether you already decapped the case or not. In other words, I think you have the expander ball/decapping pin set too short.

When I am cutting/forming cases, I try to cut them short enough to stretch out to a formed case of just at 1.360 Takes a couple of trys, but you will get it.

Hope all this helps, you are very close.

I should add that I am a little "overboard" on my process of forming my cases. I actually full length resize the .223 cases before I cut them off, as I want all of the force I am applying to resize the case available to resize the neck. On a good day, after resizing all I need to do is deburr the cases inside and out.........no more trimming is necessary. Anyway, there are several roads that take us all to the same destination. You will settle on which one you will take!

[madmosche]

What is your OAL before forming? Looks like your case may be too long before you form and it is hitting the mouth before you get a full length size on your case.

I am in agreement, I think your case length before forming is too long. After all they do stretch out a little during forming. As far as using your expander ball/decapping pin during resizing...... I think you need to adjust the depth of the expander ball/decapping pin. It should be set to decap a primer whether you already decapped the case or not. In other words, I think you have the expander ball/decapping pin set too short.

When I am cutting/forming cases, I try to cut them short enough to stretch out to a formed case of just at 1.360 Takes a couple of trys, but you will get it.

Hope all this helps, you are very close.

What length do you chop the 223 cases down to before forming? I bought a little jig for the HF chop saw on Ebay so I've just been using it the way it was set up, which seems to be at 1.380". I don't have a lot of adjustment options on the jig. But I will definitely try chopping them shorter to see if that has any affect. Thank you all for the input!!

[Sig220]

Honestly, I could not tell you the length that I trim to as it has been a while since I have formed cases. I use a "jig" as well and the only adjustment I have is the length. I can loosen the screw that holds the jig in the saw and slide it either way to make the cases longer or shorter. I would try to cut one at 1.360 with the saw and then form it and see if it comes out below 1.365. If it does then I would be happy.

Reloaders are a strange lot (including myself) some will say make all your cases the minimum length to allow for growth over firings. Some will find the primer pockets getting loose before the case gets long enough to trim, I don't often have to trim any of my cases so that makes me happy!

You are at the point to where your efforts are going to be rewarding. Take your time, find the length that works for you!

[madmosche]

Honestly, I could not tell you the length that I trim to as it has been a while since I have formed cases. I use a "jig" as well and the only adjustment I have is the length. I can loosen the screw that holds the jig in the saw and slide it either way to make the cases longer or shorter. I would try to cut one at 1.360 with the saw and then form it and see if it comes out below 1.365. If it does then I would be happy.

Reloaders are a strange lot (including myself) some will say make all your cases the minimum length to allow for growth over firings. Some will find the primer pockets getting loose before the case gets long enough to trim, I don't often have to trim any of my cases so that makes me happy!

You are at the point to where your efforts are going to be rewarding. Take your time, find the length that works for you!

Sounds good, thanks for the advice Sig220!

[cwlongshot]

The cases are not too long as you should be able to size a FL 223 case in the 300 die. I have LEE, REDDING and Hornady dies and ALL will take a FL case. (Even tho LEE them selves advises against using there die for case forming. NONE require removal of the decap stem)

Also, it is NORMAL for a shell holder NOT to touch when sizing after adjusting a firm cam over of the die WO/ a case. The AMOUNT of cam over will effect that shoulder position.

The cases grow a bit ipon firing if the pressures are high. But much of the cases "GROTH" occurs from that expander ball is pulled thru the neck. Proper lube helps greatly.

Over the weekend I processed about 350 cases for a new friend of mine. I had ZERO ISSUES. I made a couple cideos to show him the process. I also annealed them, checked the neck thickness, Dry Tumbled them and lastly after forming, I wet tumbled them, but didnt video that. Its like watching paint dry....

Good on you, for using the case gauges!

https://youtu.be/dtZv-QKQf6Q

https://youtu.be/ISCtirraxIw

CW

[madmosche]

Okay here's where I'm at. The case length was not the issue. I intentionally cut one way below minimum length (to 1.300) and it still bells out the case mouth when the decap/expander is removed. Photos here: https://imgur.com/a/xhe1UfU

I tried various settings for the decap/expander piece, all the way up, down, and everywhere in between - no change. It always sticks up a hair above the headspace gauge when the decap/expander is in the die. As soon as I remove the decap/expander, it always sizes the cases perfectly but it bells out the case mouths.

So at this point I've contacted RCBS to determine why this is occurring. It seems to me that the decap/expander is somehow interfering with proper sizing/forming.