Hornady 190gr Sub-X Load Development

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Matt in TN
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Hornady 190gr Sub-X Load Development

Post by Matt in TN » Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:51 pm

I thought I'd add another data point for anyone working with this bullet. As always - don't follow my load data, start low, and work up.

This is out of an 8" Ballistic Advantage Barrel with a Form 1 suppressor I made. Here's the velocity and group size at 50 yds. OAL was 2.070"±0.005" (aiming for the middle of the cannelure), and I added a heavy crimp with the Lee FCD. These were 3-shot groups as I was just doing initial load development. Everything cycles and locks back fine on a Magpul 5.56 magazine.

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I settled on 11.7 gr of N120 powder that gave me an average of 1,047 ft/s. Today I verified the load with a 5 shot group (50yds, wth 10x scope):

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The I put the FLIR on it and zerod it for some night time fun. Ready to go!

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cwlongshot
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Re: Hornady 190gr Sub-X Load Development

Post by cwlongshot » Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:53 pm

Nice load!!

I use N120 for The 120g Barnes.

CW
RARR 300 BLK
Ares SCR 300 BLK
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DSI based build w/18” 300 BLK (Neutered fixed mag)



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Nimrod
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Re: Hornady 190gr Sub-X Load Development

Post by Nimrod » Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:17 pm

The Sub-X bullets have been a long time making their way over to the U.K. but I’ve finally managed to swag a box and loaded some this afternoon as a try out - I also needed to zero a new Thermion XQ50 scope as well.

Although I normally used Vihtavuori powders I’ve several containers of Lil’Gun to work my way through so I started with that - it’s currently my go to for 110 V-Max and delivers sub MOA through my RARR.

Well it looks as if I struck lucky right from the get go as after 2 rounds at about 30m to confirm I was on the paper, I dialled in a few ‘digital clicks’ on the scope went back to 100 and fired 3 rounds to see how it performed. Here’s the result:

https://flic.kr/p/2jqMtii Can’t seem to upload the picture can anyone help?

Fourth round was after adjustment of the scope.

Here’s the load:

ADI (Aussie) brass, new and FL sized.
CCI SR primer
Lil’Gun 8.8gr
Hornady 190gr Sub-X
COAL 2.070” with bullet seated to approx centre of cannelure as above and Lee FCD used.

I don’t have a chronograph to hand but all rounds with the exception of one (of 20 fired) were subsonic - so maybe a small reduction in powder charge might be in order to stay on the right side.

Rifle is a Ruger RARR with filled forend but otherwise standard 16.5” barrel and Wildcat Evo modular moderator.
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ropedrag
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Re: Hornady 190gr Sub-X Load Development

Post by ropedrag » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:19 pm

Small world... I just got back from the range shooting my first sub-x development loads. Similar set up, I'm running an integrally suppressed Daniels Defense with 9" barrel.

Also using VV N120 but using new Nosler Brass. Heck we even came up with the same COL at 2.07. I use Federal Small Rifle primers GM205M. And I Don't know what it is with VV N120 and my gun, process, etc... but I seem to get 3 or 4 rounds in a 5 round set that look great with SD and ES and then 1 or 2 that act crazy. I loaded and shot 16) 5 round groups at 0.1 charge weight increments... 10.5 up to 12.0

My best numbers were the 11.5 and 11.9 charge weights with 11.5 grouping nicely. I'll share my #'s on the charges that match yours for comparison.

11.1, 929 fps, SD 17.2, ES 42
11.3, 963 fps, SD 25.7, ES 60
11.5, 993 fps, SD 8.3, ES 20
11.7, 1031 fps, SD 9.1, ES 34
11.9, 1045 fps, SD 5.9, ES 11

With the exception of 11.3 and 11.7 our velocity numbers are close it appears

Hope this information helps validate your findings.

However I ran into an issue that has me scratching my head and not to hijack your thread Matt, and I hope you don't mind but I'm at a loss and could use some help. Once my charge weight got up past 11.6 I started getting load failures and by the time i got to 11.9 and 12 it was BAD. It was cycling great and lock back without issue but the round would get out of shape and jammed up going into chamber.

My thought is that the COL being this short, and the stronger loads are cycling the bolt back harder and faster and that the round basically was stubbing it's toe as it entered the chamber.

When this did occur I'd clear the round and place back in the magazine, the bolt release would chamber it just fine.

The only other thing I can think of is that I'm using the PMAG 300blkout specific magazine... maybe the alignment is off just enough to send the round in crocked when the bolt is coming back faster and stronger off the stronger charges? Hell I'm just guessing but hope someone can help shine some light on this. While not 100% I'm fairly certain that if I increase COL it would work as it should. Never had this issue before.

One other new thing and I think this is just the Brass, but the spent casings all had dented mouths, like 20% of the mouth ring is now flat. When I prepped the new Nosler brass the necks seemed a little thin compared to my Hornady and Noveske brass.

Thanks

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rebel
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Re: Hornady 190gr Sub-X Load Development

Post by rebel » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:10 pm

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Matt in TN
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Re: Hornady 190gr Sub-X Load Development

Post by Matt in TN » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:51 pm

Afraid I'm no help on the feeding issues. Mine fed fine for everything I've tried out of a Magpul 5.56 mag. But I do get lots of failures out of old Colt metal 20rd mags. I haven't tried newer 30rd USGI mags.

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Likestogofast
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Re: Hornady 190gr Sub-X Load Development

Post by Likestogofast » Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:21 am

Hello... Long time Lurker... First time Posting...

I have been working with the Sub-x as well. My initial loads were with IMR 4227.

Firearm is Aero Precision Upper & Lower with a Ballistic Advantage 10.3 1-7 with a Dead Air Ti Direct connect Can. I drilled out the Gas port on the barrel to .101 and control the gas with a Superlative Arms Adjustable Gas Block.

All shots measure with a Competition Electronics ProChrono Digital Chronograph

I settled on 10.2gn of 4227 with COL of 2.1 which runs on average 1064 fps.

Now here is the kicker, I tried to use Accurate 1680 with the same COL of 2.1 on some new loads and could easily get the desired velocity I wanted out of the round. I did however get some feed problems. Rounds jammed on feeding in a an inconsistent manner. I tweaked the gas block a bit and still couldn't get the firearm to settle down. I grabbed a few of the IMR Rounds and they cycled without a hitch. I had a box of 220gn ELD-X's laying around and loaded those up with the 1680. Rounds cycled without a problem... 10.8gn of 1680, running at 1084 for the 220 ELD's.

For some reason I cant seem to get my head wrapped around why I was having cycling problems on the Sub-x's with the 1680. I have no problem using the 4227 for all future Sub-x rounds, and 1680 for the heavier stuff since it works great.

Any insight would be appreciated, thanks for your time.

Mark

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cwlongshot
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Re: Hornady 190gr Sub-X Load Development

Post by cwlongshot » Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:34 am

Good post Mark!

Thanks for the info.

I have put the 300 in the safe and Im playin with the 350L and subs currently. Launchin 270/280g logs with almost 1100 fpe and listening to that thwap/thunk out at 100-130 yards is allot of fun. You can see a pronounced difference in the trget movement for sure. My 450g 450 BM subs do even more!!!

CW
RARR 300 BLK
Ares SCR 300 BLK
TROY "other" 300 BLK
DSI based build w/18” 300 BLK (Neutered fixed mag)



I PROUDLY SUPPORT LAW ENFORCEMENT & OUR TROOPS!!

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rebel
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Re: Hornady 190gr Sub-X Load Development

Post by rebel » Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:38 pm

Likestogofast wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:21 am
Hello... Long time Lurker... First time Posting...

I have been working with the Sub-x as well. My initial loads were with IMR 4227.

Firearm is Aero Precision Upper & Lower with a Ballistic Advantage 10.3 1-7 with a Dead Air Ti Direct connect Can. I drilled out the Gas port on the barrel to .101 and control the gas with a Superlative Arms Adjustable Gas Block.

All shots measure with a Competition Electronics ProChrono Digital Chronograph

I settled on 10.2gn of 4227 with COL of 2.1 which runs on average 1064 fps.

Now here is the kicker, I tried to use Accurate 1680 with the same COL of 2.1 on some new loads and could easily get the desired velocity I wanted out of the round. I did however get some feed problems. Rounds jammed on feeding in a an inconsistent manner. I tweaked the gas block a bit and still couldn't get the firearm to settle down. I grabbed a few of the IMR Rounds and they cycled without a hitch. I had a box of 220gn ELD-X's laying around and loaded those up with the 1680. Rounds cycled without a problem... 10.8gn of 1680, running at 1084 for the 220 ELD's.

For some reason I cant seem to get my head wrapped around why I was having cycling problems on the Sub-x's with the 1680. I have no problem using the 4227 for all future Sub-x rounds, and 1680 for the heavier stuff since it works great.

Any insight would be appreciated, thanks for your time.

Mark
Bullet profile is very different than an ELDX. Try loading it longer in.005 increments and see if that doesn't solve your issue.
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ropedrag
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Re: Hornady 190gr Sub-X Load Development

Post by ropedrag » Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:38 am

Dialing down on the failure to feed. I bought a few new magpul 300 blkout specific mags, tested, no improvement. So I then bought 300 blkout specific Lancer mags... Again no improvement. The good news is that I'm stocked up on mags though!

Interesting that the misfeed typically seems to occur on the last few rounds in a mag.... Less spring tension perhaps? So I loaded 5 sub-x rounds over 5 "normal" rounds. Still had a miss feed on the 5th sub-x.

What is the disadvantage of loading these at a longer COL? Obviously Hornady put the cannelure there for a reason but I'm not experienced enough to know if ignoring it would result in other issues apart from creating more volume in the case below the bullet and needing to tweak the powder charge for velocity and accuracy.

I'm unsure where the line is on having too little of the bullet seated in the neck and I'd rather not dance near a dangerous line.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Thanks!

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