Handloads for Sig Rattler

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jakeAMP
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Handloads for Sig Rattler

Post by jakeAMP »

Hey guys, this is my first post, happy to be here. I’m developing subsonic loads specifically for use with the Sig Rattler.

So, I’m not a reloading wizard, by any means, but I have reloaded thousands of rounds of 5.56 with great success, and have reloaded close to a thousand rounds of 300 BLK as well. Recently, I’ve been breaking away from the published load data because most of what I’ve seen that’s been published by manufacturers has been developed using a rifle with a 16” barrel with a 1/8 twist. Some of you may know that the Sig Rattler has a tiny little 5.5” barrel with a 1x5 twist rate, so it stood to reason to me that the published data wouldn’t translate, and I verified this just today with my new LabRadar chronograph. Even factory ammo was showing roughly 200fps slower than advertised on the box, and does not like to lock the bolt back in my gun.

Anyway, to the point. I found a load that so far is working pretty... ok.

Case: Converted Lake City 5.56 (Fancy Brass Co)
Trimmed to: 1.36”
Bullet: Sierra 200gr HPBT Matchking
Powder: H110
Charge: 10.7gr
Primer: Winchester Small Rifle Primer
COAL: 2.23”

The good news: it cycled beautifully, the bolt locked back every time, and all twenty rounds that I fired remained subsonic.

The bad news: I’m not stoked on the standard deviation and extreme spread.

Shot 1: 1017
Shot 2: 989
Shot 3: 1090
Shot 4: 1082 (pretty much what I was going for)
Shot 5: 988
Shot 6: 985
Shot 7: 1070
Shot 8: 989
Shot 9: 1041
Shot 10: 979
Shot 11: 972
Shot 12: 960
Shot 13: 1006
Shot 14: 976
Shot 15: 991
Shot 16: 1035
Shot 17: 1055
Shot 18: 993
Shot 19: 965
Shot 20: 1006

AVG Velocity: 1009
ES: 130
SD: 39.4

I did not try an accuracy test, but I would imagine that an SD like this wouldn’t be so hot on paper. But, I mean, practically, like I said, it cycled great, and the numbers are about 200fps hotter than any factory subs that I’ve shot, and still well within our subsonic range.

I want to try CFE BLK powder next, it’s my understanding that H110 tends to be better for supers and CFE is the way to go for subs. Looking at the data, it seems I’ll be able to get more powder into the case and hopefully have it a bit closer to the bullet and therefore get a more consistent pressure.

I’ll also be trying CCI 400 primers. I recently found a video on YouTube by Johnny’s Reloading Bench in which he did a test with several primers firing the same bullets with the same powder and charge, and the CCI 400s generally had the best SD.

I have the powder on the way from Brownells and I’ll grab some primers from my local store on Friday.

Hopefully some of you guys will find this little venture interesting, I personally haven’t seen anyone else anywhere on the internet messing with loads specifically for the Rattler, the Honey Badger, the Maxim PDX, all these tiny little 300 BLK pdws that have hit the market in the last few years.

The goal with this load is to achieve maximum energy and velocity without breaking the sound barrier coming out of a 5.5” barrel. If it works out well, I’ll see if I can develop a plinking sub load with a cheaper bullet lol.

Cheers.
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certifiable
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Re: Handloads for Sig Rattler

Post by certifiable »

Personally I would group the load to at least 100yds to see how your load does before switching directions. I am of the opinion that some get a little too wrapped around the axle when it comes to es and sd numbers when doing load development as it doesn’t account for barrel harmonics. You can always seat that bullet deeper to get the base down to the powder and see how that affects things. Since your goal is maximizing the foot pound energy for subs, the two ways to accomplish that it to increase the velocity and the bullet weight but is really a mute point since you are using a non expanding bullet that will go through a target where kinetic energy really matters like an ice pick thus transferring minimal energy to said target. Keep at it and you will get where you want to be.

ETA: h110/w296 is one my favorite powders for subs
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dellet
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Re: Handloads for Sig Rattler

Post by dellet »

certifiable wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 2:00 am Personally I would group the load to at least 100yds to see how your load does before switching directions. I am of the opinion that some get a little too wrapped around the axle when it comes to es and sd numbers when doing load development as it doesn’t account for barrel harmonics. You can always seat that bullet deeper to get the base down to the powder and see how that affects things. Since your goal is maximizing the foot pound energy for subs, the two ways to accomplish that it to increase the velocity and the bullet weight but is really a mute point since you are using a non expanding bullet that will go through a target where kinetic energy really matters like an ice pick thus transferring minimal energy to said target. Keep at it and you will get where you want to be.

ETA: h110/w296 is one my favorite powders for subs
The only things I would add to this is that CFE BLK is my last choice for powder for short barrels.

Be careful of bullet choice for supers in the 1/5 twist. Not all can handle the spin rate generated by that fast of twist.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.
jakeAMP
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Re: Handloads for Sig Rattler

Post by jakeAMP »

certifiable wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 2:00 am but is really a mute point since you are using a non expanding bullet that will go through a target where kinetic energy really matters like an ice pick thus transferring minimal energy to said target.
You know, that’s a really good point. Do you have any experience with more “expansive” bullets? I keep finding myself drawn to Lehigh Defense but MAN are they expensive.
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Ben B.
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Re: Handloads for Sig Rattler

Post by Ben B. »

I picked up some 190 gr Hornady Sub-X bullets and loaded those so I had some “expanding subsonics”, for which I have no current need or likely future need. If I shoot something made of meat with a 300 BLK, it is with SuperSonics. I’ve loaded a few thousand various subsonic rounds for range giggles with silencers. I currently like the pointy lead 218 gr Gallant coated bullets because it feeds perfectly in ARs. Acme bullets has a few different interesting bullets with flat meplats that could be probably be used successfully on meat targets, if they feed correctly in your gun. These are much less expense than the boutique expanding sub bullets. I’d need a damn good reason to
A. Choose subs for meat targets and
B. Work up an accurate load with the $1-$2/ bullet stuff.
"rjacobs" quote removed at "rjacobs" request.
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certifiable
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Re: Handloads for Sig Rattler

Post by certifiable »

jakeAMP wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 10:41 am
certifiable wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 2:00 am but is really a mute point since you are using a non expanding bullet that will go through a target where kinetic energy really matters like an ice pick thus transferring minimal energy to said target.
You know, that’s a really good point. Do you have any experience with more “expansive” bullets? I keep finding myself drawn to Lehigh Defense but MAN are they expensive.
I have not had the opportunity to test them in living tissue but I have done some water jug testing with the lehigh and some of the Maker Bullets offerings out to 200yds and both performed as advertised.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside.
If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."

Abraham Lincoln
jakeAMP
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Re: Handloads for Sig Rattler

Post by jakeAMP »

You guys bring up some good points, I’m thinking I’ll stick to the HPBTs for stocking in bulk and for the range and probably just bite the bullet -so to speak- and grab some of those Lehigh Defense bullets for some loads for the go bag.

I did take a look at the 190 sub x bullets as well, they seem pretty cool, though they don’t seem to expand THAT much and still penetrate pretty deep, though not much deeper than the Lehigh bullets.

I’ll post results hopefully over the weekend after I press my next batch of HPBTs.

Thanks again for the input so far guys, I really appreciate it.
jakeAMP
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Re: Handloads for Sig Rattler

Post by jakeAMP »

Alright, so I just tried some loads with CFE BLK. I’m not understanding why some of you guys don’t like it out of a shorter barrel, I thought it worked great.

Load data for the Sierra HPBT 200gr:

Case: Lake City converted
Trim to: 1.36”
Powder: CFE BLK
Charge: 15gr
Primer: Winchester Small Rifle
COAL: 2.23”

LabRadar Chronograph Results (10 shots):

AVG Velocity: 1054
Highest: 1067
Lowest: 1043
Extreme Spread: 24
Std Deviation: 7.5

I’m happy with that. Tomorrow I’ll get up there to the range and shoot for accuracy. Keeping in mind I’m developing loads for a PDW style weapon, I’ll be zeroing for 50 yards, then I’ll test groups at 100 as well just to say I did. Honestly, so long as I keep it within 3” and more importantly, don’t see any signs of rounds trying to keyhole, I’ll be happy with this load. I’ll report back with accuracy results hopefully tomorrow evening.
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dellet
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Re: Handloads for Sig Rattler

Post by dellet »

jakeAMP wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 5:38 pm Alright, so I just tried some loads with CFE BLK. I’m not understanding why some of you guys don’t like it out of a shorter barrel, I thought it worked great.
I don't like it because it's comparatively loud, dirty, inconsistent, blows way too much gas in your face and takes anywhere from 20-100% more powder to achieve the same velocity as other powders.

Basically it needs to be compressed to be worth shooting, so it can very accurate with supers, but it will be 150-200 fps slow in a already velocity challenged cartridge. Many subs you have trouble getting compression on the powder so you end up with ES numbers that are triple digit.

Your load as an example, is probably only burning 75-80% of the powder, the rest in in your suppressor and fire control group.

What it has going for it is that you can load potato chips for a bullet and it has enough gas to cycle any AR on the planet no matter how poorly built it is.

Again It can be very accurate and as long as you don't mind the smoke in your face, grit in your trigger, noise to the shooter, or need the extra velocity for supers. it can be a very good choice.

The shorter the barrel, the more the above statements will be true.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.
TRshootem
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Re: Handloads for Sig Rattler

Post by TRshootem »

I use it with good results in supers and fired in the RARR. Compressed and a magnum primer took care of some the burn issues with supers with 140-160 gr bullets in the 10.5 inch pistol. I'm still working on which bullet/charge proves acceptable overall. Subs really work fine, erratic numbers and dirty burn occurs, though less so with the heaviest I've used so far (240 gr Missouri coated). I'm still looking for the box of 265 Acme coated I bought...
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