An old Ohaus 505 and an Older RCBS (OHAUS) 10/10 are my preferred scales. I also use a trickler, drop tubes and several Lee dippers. My method is the speed of smell
But I don't make as many mistakes that way. That is "I" not you so YMMV.Best affordable reloading scale
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Re: Best affordable reloading scale
But I don't make as many mistakes that way. That is "I" not you so YMMV.You can't beat the mountain, pilgrim. Mountains got its own way.
Re: Best affordable reloading scale
I’m almost willing to bet I can throw charges faster and as least as repeatable as most sub $1000 systems. Prices are always coming down so I won’t stick my neck out too far.
Notice the word repeatable, it’s very important.
A good electronic is always likely to be more accurate, until it drifts due to many different reasons. That calls reliability into question.
A good beam scale will not be that accurate, but will always be as repeatable as you are willing to make it.
Accuracy of a charge weight is not needed. It absolutely needs to be repeatable.
If I give you a charge weight, it’s only a starting point. You are going to have to tune it by more than any beam scale will be off so who cares if it’s off .1 grain. All I care about is that every charge I weigh is the same. Call it 3 1/2 French toasts for all I care, as long as the needle points to the same place and the weight is always 3 1/2 French toasts I’m happy.
If you are going to depend on the accuracy of a digital scale to be accurate to .1 grain, it has to be accurate to .001. That’s a tall order. The last digit is only accurate to within one of that decimal place, and is the one that’s drifts the most. So if you want it accurate to .1, you need a scale that reads to .01 since each digit is +/- 5. If that last digit is the one that drifts, you need one more, .001. That will be an accurate scale.
Now the dirty little secret.
If you develop a load that is so sensitive that .1 grains of powder blows your group, your load sucks to the point it’s not repeatable.
All that said, I use an old Redding beam. Don’t even know the model. Both Redding and RCBS were made by Ohaus in the USA. They are quality scales. Not sure how good the new Chinese versions are.
Until I decide I need to shoot 5” groups at 1000 yards, I’ll probably stick with what I have. Most of us could improve our groups more by spending time behind the trigger instead of obsessing over .2 grain variation in our loads.
Notice the word repeatable, it’s very important.
A good electronic is always likely to be more accurate, until it drifts due to many different reasons. That calls reliability into question.
A good beam scale will not be that accurate, but will always be as repeatable as you are willing to make it.
Accuracy of a charge weight is not needed. It absolutely needs to be repeatable.
If I give you a charge weight, it’s only a starting point. You are going to have to tune it by more than any beam scale will be off so who cares if it’s off .1 grain. All I care about is that every charge I weigh is the same. Call it 3 1/2 French toasts for all I care, as long as the needle points to the same place and the weight is always 3 1/2 French toasts I’m happy.
If you are going to depend on the accuracy of a digital scale to be accurate to .1 grain, it has to be accurate to .001. That’s a tall order. The last digit is only accurate to within one of that decimal place, and is the one that’s drifts the most. So if you want it accurate to .1, you need a scale that reads to .01 since each digit is +/- 5. If that last digit is the one that drifts, you need one more, .001. That will be an accurate scale.
Now the dirty little secret.
If you develop a load that is so sensitive that .1 grains of powder blows your group, your load sucks to the point it’s not repeatable.
All that said, I use an old Redding beam. Don’t even know the model. Both Redding and RCBS were made by Ohaus in the USA. They are quality scales. Not sure how good the new Chinese versions are.
Until I decide I need to shoot 5” groups at 1000 yards, I’ll probably stick with what I have. Most of us could improve our groups more by spending time behind the trigger instead of obsessing over .2 grain variation in our loads.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.
Re: Best affordable reloading scale
Point taken, Dellet. So if you’re off by .1 grains here and there your groups aren’t going to double in size, that will ultimately be defined by shooting skill, and other reloading factors? I suppose I might be being anal about that slight drift in these scales....
Im going to by the CE products fx120 scale package!
Not... Im only kidding....
Im going to by the CE products fx120 scale package!
Not... Im only kidding....Re: Best affordable reloading scale
Agreed 1000%dellet wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:18 pm I’m almost willing to bet I can throw charges faster and as least as repeatable as most sub $1000 systems. Prices are always coming down so I won’t stick my neck out too far.
Notice the word repeatable, it’s very important.
A good electronic is always likely to be more accurate, until it drifts due to many different reasons. That calls reliability into question.
A good beam scale will not be that accurate, but will always be as repeatable as you are willing to make it.
Accuracy of a charge weight is not needed. It absolutely needs to be repeatable.
If I give you a charge weight, it’s only a starting point. You are going to have to tune it by more than any beam scale will be off so who cares if it’s off .1 grain. All I care about is that every charge I weigh is the same. Call it 3 1/2 French toasts for all I care, as long as the needle points to the same place and the weight is always 3 1/2 French toasts I’m happy.
If you are going to depend on the accuracy of a digital scale to be accurate to .1 grain, it has to be accurate to .001. That’s a tall order. The last digit is only accurate to within one of that decimal place, and is the one that’s drifts the most. So if you want it accurate to .1, you need a scale that reads to .01 since each digit is +/- 5. If that last digit is the one that drifts, you need one more, .001. That will be an accurate scale.
Now the dirty little secret.
If you develop a load that is so sensitive that .1 grains of powder blows your group, your load sucks to the point it’s not repeatable.
All that said, I use an old Redding beam. Don’t even know the model. Both Redding and RCBS were made by Ohaus in the USA. They are quality scales. Not sure how good the new Chinese versions are.
Until I decide I need to shoot 5” groups at 1000 yards, I’ll probably stick with what I have. Most of us could improve our groups more by spending time behind the trigger instead of obsessing over .2 grain variation in our loads.
When I traded a friend for a rifle he gave me all his load data, which might as well been hieroglyphics to me. One thing I did learn, his old Ohaus and my Old Ohaus were .2 gr apart. No biggie, the french toast repeats. And dellet, as you recall, that golf ball of mine and the load development for Dr.Phil was all done old school. It works, it's proven and as you said it's repeatable.
You can't beat the mountain, pilgrim. Mountains got its own way.
Re: Best affordable reloading scale
That’s a very nice package and a high percentage of top shooters use it.gomeybear wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:27 pm Point taken, Dellet. So if you’re off by .1 grains here and there your groups aren’t going to double in size, that will ultimately be defined by shooting skill, and other reloading factors? I suppose I might be being anal about that slight drift in these scales....
Im going to by the CE products fx120 scale package!
Most top shooters also look for an accuracy node. Basically the most accurate load, with the most forgiveness. If +/- .05 of a grain, which is within .1, screws up your group, so will a 10 degree change in temp or shooting longer than between 9 and 10 am as the range warms up. If you have a load that is accurate on target within .3-4 grains loaded on a scale within .1, you will shoot all day.
Learning to read wind and mirage will do more to reduce group size than a $10,000 pharmaceutical grade scale.
Shooting/loading is a vicious circle. You can only shoot as good as your ammo is repeatable. So when you can shoot better than factory ammo it’s time to start handloading. When your loads are better than factory, it’s time to upgrade the rifle, which requires better loads, that might require better equipment to produce. They problem is that before you can notice the difference, you have to be able to shoot better than the rifle and the ammo to notice.
I would rather have a set of $300 custom dies matching my $3-500 barrel, and a $50 beam scale, than a $1000 digital scale, $50 dies and $3-500 rifle.
I’m not knocking money spent on any quality tools, but knowing where my money will make the most difference is important to me. Too many people putting AR’s together spend $350 on a handgaurd and $25 on a trigger.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.
Re: Best affordable reloading scale
To quote dellet -
"Learning to read wind and mirage will do more to reduce group size than a $10,000 pharmaceutical grade scale."
and to add the effects of light. Deep down the rabbit hole but it makes a difference.
"Learning to read wind and mirage will do more to reduce group size than a $10,000 pharmaceutical grade scale."
and to add the effects of light. Deep down the rabbit hole but it makes a difference.
You can't beat the mountain, pilgrim. Mountains got its own way.
Re: Best affordable reloading scale
Pretty much that node comment earlier is what your looking for.
Optimal Charge Weight method is used to find the barrels accuracy node... by shooting groups looking for vertical dispersion - Once you shoot a ladder you'll notice 3 or so separate groups on average all group within the same vertical plane... So that might be a 0.2-0.8gn variance between group charges - Yet they'd all group the same. So you could be off by 4x 0.1gn (over or under) and still get good groups / accuracy.
If you get that lee plastic dipper set along with a good trickler - you can charge consistently/quickly with a beam scale - Like dellet mentioned - Just gotta find your rhythm.
I'd spend the big money on a Chronograph - Labradar or magnetospeed - That way you can bank on the accuracy of your gear when shooting.
Optimal Charge Weight method is used to find the barrels accuracy node... by shooting groups looking for vertical dispersion - Once you shoot a ladder you'll notice 3 or so separate groups on average all group within the same vertical plane... So that might be a 0.2-0.8gn variance between group charges - Yet they'd all group the same. So you could be off by 4x 0.1gn (over or under) and still get good groups / accuracy.
If you get that lee plastic dipper set along with a good trickler - you can charge consistently/quickly with a beam scale - Like dellet mentioned - Just gotta find your rhythm.
I'd spend the big money on a Chronograph - Labradar or magnetospeed - That way you can bank on the accuracy of your gear when shooting.
Re: Best affordable reloading scale
@simjosh1
Been looking into that auto trickler v3 package. Doing some research on it and I thought I would ask you if you ground the scale? Also, do you use a line-conditioner or anything of that sort to smooth out voltage supply?
Been looking into that auto trickler v3 package. Doing some research on it and I thought I would ask you if you ground the scale? Also, do you use a line-conditioner or anything of that sort to smooth out voltage supply?
Re: Best affordable reloading scale
Replied to pm. Any issues let me know!
Re: Best affordable reloading scale
Awesome thread and great replies!
What would the best bang for the buck scales be, either electronic or beam?
What would the best bang for the buck scales be, either electronic or beam?
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