Makers 190 and CFE BLK subsonic

[BOB567]

Had some time today so worked up some loads with the chrono. Did not check accuracy but checked speed and to make sure the action locked back on empty. Temp at time of test was 33 degrees. Wind calm. 5 rounds fired per charge weight. All brand new Starline nickel brass and CCI 450 primers. Seated to 2.250. Upper is a Daniel Defense w/10.3" barrel, pistol gas length. There were no malfunctions, rounds were loaded 1 per magazine to check for lock back.
10.5 grains Ave. 860 fps. Deviation = 60
11.0 grains Ave. 934 fps. Deviation = 65
11.5 grains Ave. 960 fps. Deviation = 35
12.0 grains Ave. 973 fps. Deviation = 65

I'm liking that 11.5 load. I'll check them for accuracy once it warms up a little more. Hope this information helps someone else.

[SIMJOSH1]

Had some time today so worked up some loads with the chrono. Did not check accuracy but checked speed and to make sure the action locked back on empty. Temp at time of test was 33 degrees. Wind calm. 5 rounds fired per charge weight. All brand new Starline nickel brass and CCI 450 primers. Seated to 2.250. Upper is a Daniel Defense w/10.3" barrel, pistol gas length. There were no malfunctions, rounds were loaded 1 per magazine to check for lock back.
10.5 grains Ave. 860 fps. Deviation = 60
11.0 grains Ave. 934 fps. Deviation = 65
11.5 grains Ave. 960 fps. Deviation = 35
12.0 grains Ave. 973 fps. Deviation = 65

I'm liking that 11.5 load. I'll check them for accuracy once it warms up a little more. Hope this information helps someone else.

HOLY cow.. You were't neck deep bullet crammed in lands at 2.25 oal?!?!?!?! My max OAL is 2.145 which would still put the ojive IN the lands... How'd you come up with 2.25 OAL by the way? I originally used Lehigh's 194gn to tailor my loads and oal but measured.

I'm just interested to know if your throat's that long or not.

I've moved on from A1680 due to the ES/SD - was getting great accuracy but yea.

[BOB567]

Had some time today so worked up some loads with the chrono. Did not check accuracy but checked speed and to make sure the action locked back on empty. Temp at time of test was 33 degrees. Wind calm. 5 rounds fired per charge weight. All brand new Starline nickel brass and CCI 450 primers. Seated to 2.250. Upper is a Daniel Defense w/10.3" barrel, pistol gas length. There were no malfunctions, rounds were loaded 1 per magazine to check for lock back.
10.5 grains Ave. 860 fps. Deviation = 60
11.0 grains Ave. 934 fps. Deviation = 65
11.5 grains Ave. 960 fps. Deviation = 35
12.0 grains Ave. 973 fps. Deviation = 65

I'm liking that 11.5 load. I'll check them for accuracy once it warms up a little more. Hope this information helps someone else.

HOLY cow.. You were't neck deep bullet crammed in lands at 2.25 oal?!?!?!?! My max OAL is 2.145 which would still put the ojive IN the lands... How'd you come up with 2.25 OAL by the way? I originally used Lehigh's 194gn to tailor my loads and oal but measured.

I'm just interested to know if your throat's that long or not.

I've moved on from A1680 due to the ES/SD - was getting great accuracy but yea.

Not sure what your saying? Book says 2.260 = mag length. I'm loading these at 2.250. Function was perfect. They all fit my go - no go gauge.

[SIMJOSH1]

Had some time today so worked up some loads with the chrono. Did not check accuracy but checked speed and to make sure the action locked back on empty. Temp at time of test was 33 degrees. Wind calm. 5 rounds fired per charge weight. All brand new Starline nickel brass and CCI 450 primers. Seated to 2.250. Upper is a Daniel Defense w/10.3" barrel, pistol gas length. There were no malfunctions, rounds were loaded 1 per magazine to check for lock back.
10.5 grains Ave. 860 fps. Deviation = 60
11.0 grains Ave. 934 fps. Deviation = 65
11.5 grains Ave. 960 fps. Deviation = 35
12.0 grains Ave. 973 fps. Deviation = 65

I'm liking that 11.5 load. I'll check them for accuracy once it warms up a little more. Hope this information helps someone else.

HOLY cow.. You were't neck deep bullet crammed in lands at 2.25 oal?!?!?!?! My max OAL is 2.145 which would still put the ojive IN the lands... How'd you come up with 2.25 OAL by the way? I originally used Lehigh's 194gn to tailor my loads and oal but measured.

I'm just interested to know if your throat's that long or not.

I've moved on from A1680 due to the ES/SD - was getting great accuracy but yea.

Not sure what your saying? Book says 2.260 = mag length. I'm loading these at 2.250. Function was perfect. They all fit my go - no go gauge.

That's what I'm saying. Where did you find published data on Makers Bullets 190 grain subsonic ?

There is absolutely no published data for this manufacturer that I'm aware of.. for a couple bullets he publishes the data under the resource tab but absolutely no reloading manual has this data.. So how did you come up with a coal? ?

I'd recommend measuring the chamber because on my rifle that bullet would of been 0.099" inside the lands upon firing.

Makers subsonic rounds have very pronounced ogives which most other published subs do not!


Ps.. I understand your under max cartridge over all length... But that's not the standard for every bullet. Your using a sheridan gauge? Im not sure if it'd have passed mine. I'll double check that on my sheridan Friday.

- regardless that length might be longer on some barrels than others.. So without published data you got to play it safe by measuring the chamber. With published data you should be safe at recommended COAL.

[SIMJOSH1]

https://makerbullets.com/proddetail.php?prod=308220SBLK

Go to specifications tab..notice the COAL! ! !
Yes I know this is for 200gn, but for me..it's the same max coal with 190 grain.

Measure your chamber and do not assume all 190 grain bullets are created equal.

If you need help measuring the chamber let me know. I'll tell you how I did it with just a dremel or expander mandrel..

[dellet]

Please post a photo of the bullet

[SIMJOSH1]

Please post a photo of the bullet

Best I could do atm. One i get my pc logged into the forum I'll try and get a direct picture in posting

[SIMJOSH1]

For what it's worth the picture on Makers website makes it look like a sharper tip... But it's pretty blunt and transitions to ogive quickly

Still a fanatic shooting projectile

[rebel]

For what it's worth the picture on Makers website makes it look like a sharper tip... But it's pretty blunt and transitions to ogive quickly

Still a fanatic shooting projectile

Never tried an expansion test on a fanatic
If you haven't at least skimmed through this thread, you should. I had to eat a bit of crow casserole, made a new friend in Paul, owner of Maker and got to work on problem solving with Dellet. Through that process, we (300 Blk community ) learned alot. Especially when others added there input. Got to give a thumbs up to the collaborative team work here as many played a part in it. Here is a link-
viewtopic.php?f=141&t=97863&hilit=maker ... ct#p942475

[dellet]

Please post a photo of the bullet

Best I could do atm. One i get my pc logged into the forum I'll try and get a direct picture in posting

I don’t have one in possession so some of these numbers will be a reasonable guesses. I can tell you for a fact that bullet can be loaded longer than mag length. We’ll look at some numbers anyway.

For perspective the bullet is 1.300” long and is basically what would be referred to as a “bore rider”.

The whole nose section will ride the lands down the bore. The diameter of that section is 300”.

The bearing surface of the bullet basically has a shoulder where it transitions to the nose, that is where it will first contact the lands, and where a comparator would be used to measure.

Below that is a pressure groove. It’s not a canalure, but could probably serve that function if you really wanted and chamber would allow. It is .308 diameter and will be a bearing surface in the barrel. It will be .250-300” long.

The nose Is about half the length of the bullet.

If the nose is half the bullets length of 300”. It’s .650” long.

So my if guess is even anywhere near accurate, the case 1.355” plus .650” for the nose plus .250” for the first half of the bearing surface is 2.255” crimped in the pressure groove.

Now the question is will it jam.

Specs for the chamber is 1.7something bolt face to lands. That is what we look for measuring base to ogive. Depending on nose profile it can be +/- .050”.

Case length 1.355 plus bearing surface length 300” (using worst case) is 1.655” . Probably still not hitting the lands.

It would be nice to hear from Bob567 to say yes or no if thats how he loaded his rounds.

If one of you guys has a chamber problem because that bullet can or can’t be loaded to 2.50”, it ain’t Bob.

If I was Bob567, and wanted to use CFE with that bullet, I would drop 11 grains in and seat the bullet down in the powder.

The only other thing I’ll mention is that the bullet in the picture looks like it was destroyed while seating. A heavy ring on the nose from the seating stem.

It’s a lot easier to just measure and do correctly with gauges, but there are always more ways to figure thing s out. I’ll be interested to see how close my numbers are.

For what it’s worth, Maker loads that bullet to 2.100”