Shooters World Blackout and Acme DS 265gr.

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jammitchell84
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Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:35 pm

Shooters World Blackout and Acme DS 265gr.

Post by jammitchell84 » Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:03 pm

I believe this is my first post here, although I have lurked this forum for years. I am also rather new to handloading. However, today I feel I have something to contribute considering I have search for this combo and found nothing, literally nothing. So here it is!

9.5" 1-8 twist
Pistol gas
NiCom standard M16 BCG
Standard C Buffer and (green) spring
Silencerco Omega 300 with QD mount/recoil brake
PMag 300

Sig twice-fired brass trimmed to 1.355
Shooters World Blackout powder 9gr, 9.5gr, and 10gr.
Acme DS 265
OAL 2.1"

68° F with low humidity

All three stabilized and no keyholes.
All three cycled and bolt held back.
All three subsonic
I wished I had time to check accuracy but was getting dark. No chrony so didn't get velocity.

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savage308
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Re: Shooters World Blackout and Acme DS 265gr.

Post by savage308 » Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:38 pm

I load shooters world black out ,11.2 gr ,wolf srm, 245 Missouri coated in lc brass. works great for me.

jammitchell84
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Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:35 pm

Re: Shooters World Blackout and Acme DS 265gr.

Post by jammitchell84 » Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:02 am

Forgot to mention that I used CCI 400s. Pressure signs looked good, slight flattening at 10gr but nothing concerning.

fancygunz
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Re: Shooters World Blackout and Acme DS 265gr.

Post by fancygunz » Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:24 pm

jammitchell84 wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:03 pm

All three stabilized and no keyholes.
All three cycled and bolt held back.
All three subsonic
I wished I had time to check accuracy but was getting dark. No chrony so didn't get velocity.
How can you conclude they were subsonic if you didn't measure velocity?

Isopher
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Posts: 4
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Re: Shooters World Blackout and Acme DS 265gr.

Post by Isopher » Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:06 pm

fancygunz wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:24 pm
jammitchell84 wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:03 pm

All three stabilized and no keyholes.
All three cycled and bolt held back.
All three subsonic
I wished I had time to check accuracy but was getting dark. No chrony so didn't get velocity.
How can you conclude they were subsonic if you didn't measure velocity?
Not to step on OP but,
Having shot both supers and subs, you can tell by the sound of the bullet going down range if it is super or sub. Subs will lack the distinct crack sound of a super. Also, with that bullet and powder load it should be subsonic anyway just judging by other similar loads you can find on the site.

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dellet
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Re: Shooters World Blackout and Acme DS 265gr.

Post by dellet » Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:49 am

Isopher wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:06 pm
fancygunz wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:24 pm
jammitchell84 wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:03 pm

All three stabilized and no keyholes.
All three cycled and bolt held back.
All three subsonic
I wished I had time to check accuracy but was getting dark. No chrony so didn't get velocity.
How can you conclude they were subsonic if you didn't measure velocity?
Not to step on OP but,
Having shot both supers and subs, you can tell by the sound of the bullet going down range if it is super or sub. Subs will lack the distinct crack sound of a super. Also, with that bullet and powder load it should be subsonic anyway just judging by other similar loads you can find on the site.
If we go by the text book of hard knock, there are a number of errors in the way the OP went about this and conclusions drawn. In his defense there is not enough information, but most people with experience would have done it different.

The biggest issue is to use an unknown bullet and check stability with a can on. You don’t want to find out it’s not stable with a baffle strike. That bullet has a good history, but it’s not worth the risk.

Next is it appears he started with a low charge and worked up. This can have a couple issues. Too low and a bullet sticks in the barrel. With marginal twist rate and low velocity, that can be the cause of stability issues.

Starting low can also lead to a lot of wasted time and materials, that is compounded without a chronograph. If you start high, say 12 grains, fire twice and the velocity is 1300 fps and the thing won’t cycle, the project is about finished. If you start at 9 grains and it cycles at 650 fps, then work up until it cracks, you’ll be awhile.

More than one person with a fair amount of experience, have worked up loads that were functional and accurate only to finally check and find out that it was below the minimum velocity they wanted or the bullet needed to function,

Checking sub/not sub by hearing the crack is completely conditions of the day and distance shot reliant. I function check suppressed supers all the time and never get a sonic crack. If the bullet never out runs the gasses coming out of the muzzle, it won’t crack. I shoot into a bullet trap at 3-4’ and never get a sound.

Subs without a suppressor are difficult to hear the silence past the muzzle blast, if they are only traveling 25 yards.

Personally my shooting temps vary well over 100 degrees, so without a chronograph all my sub loads would need to be developed in the winter at say -30, instead of when convenient and warm.

It’s not that it can’t be done the described in the OP, there are just more convenient ways with less cost and risk. As a disclaimer, I would be lying if I said I have not done the exact same thing trying a new powder/bullet combo. If you can load and shoot at home or the range, assembling a few rounds and shooting them takes less time than to set up the chronograph and a lot of valuable information can be gained.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.

Isopher
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Re: Shooters World Blackout and Acme DS 265gr.

Post by Isopher » Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:16 pm

dellet wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:49 am
Checking sub/not sub by hearing the crack is completely conditions of the day and distance shot reliant. I function check suppressed supers all the time and never get a sonic crack. If the bullet never out runs the gasses coming out of the muzzle, it won’t crack. I shoot into a bullet trap at 3-4’ and never get a sound.

Subs without a suppressor are difficult to hear the silence past the muzzle blast, if they are only traveling 25 yards.

Personally my shooting temps vary well over 100 degrees, so without a chronograph all my sub loads would need to be developed in the winter at say -30, instead of when convenient and warm.
Hmm... You make a good point.
I made some assumptions based on my conditions that don't necessarily apply. For me, I have to test at a range where the minimum distance for a bullet stop is 100yds, and I use a suppressor. OP did mention using a suppressor, but is missing other info.

jammitchell84
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Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:35 pm

Re: Shooters World Blackout and Acme DS 265gr.

Post by jammitchell84 » Thu Dec 19, 2019 6:33 pm

It's actually an honor to have several of you weigh in. My OP could have contained more information. However first of all I did consult with Dolomite Supa regarding his bullet. Also I should've stated that I was shooting 3 loads, of which I loaded 4 each. I shot each group 3 times prior to the last of each through my can so I could establish stability. From my research I concluded that 9 gr would be more than sufficient to clear a good boolit from the gun and 10.5 should get me close to the sonic envelope. I made certain each round made it clear of the bore prior to the next firing. I understand that subs should be (in most circumstances) worked from high to low, however concluded that going from low to high in this scenario with extreme caution would be best and posed less threat. I admit that I am a novice, yet a novice who has lurked this and other forums for years plus many published books on the subject with notes by which I adhere. I was aware of sonic "crack", yet these loads didn't produce any and my range was 50yrd of a possible 100+. Thanks again for all the input. Please see my recent post by searching for nosler 200 partition. I found these for <$18/50.

jammitchell84
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Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:35 pm

Re: Shooters World Blackout and Acme DS 265gr.

Post by jammitchell84 » Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:15 am

Isopher wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:06 pm
fancygunz wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:24 pm
jammitchell84 wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:03 pm

All three stabilized and no keyholes.
All three cycled and bolt held back.
All three subsonic
I wished I had time to check accuracy but was getting dark. No chrony so didn't get velocity.
How can you conclude they were subsonic if you didn't measure velocity?
Not to step on OP but,
Having shot both supers and subs, you can tell by the sound of the bullet going down range if it is super or sub. Subs will lack the distinct crack sound of a super. Also, with that bullet and powder load it should be subsonic anyway just judging by other similar loads you can find on the site.
Thanks Isopher. That exactly the case as well as how I determined my charge weight. Considering this is mostly for plinking, I plan to try a few slightly lower charge weights as long as decent accuracy and reliable function still occurs.

jammitchell84
Member
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:35 pm

Re: Shooters World Blackout and Acme DS 265gr.

Post by jammitchell84 » Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:32 am

dellet wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:49 am
Isopher wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:06 pm
fancygunz wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:24 pm


How can you conclude they were subsonic if you didn't measure velocity?
Not to step on OP but,
Having shot both supers and subs, you can tell by the sound of the bullet going down range if it is super or sub. Subs will lack the distinct crack sound of a super. Also, with that bullet and powder load it should be subsonic anyway just judging by other similar loads you can find on the site.
If we go by the text book of hard knock, there are a number of errors in the way the OP went about this and conclusions drawn. In his defense there is not enough information, but most people with experience would have done it different.

The biggest issue is to use an unknown bullet and check stability with a can on. You don’t want to find out it’s not stable with a baffle strike. That bullet has a good history, but it’s not worth the risk.

Next is it appears he started with a low charge and worked up. This can have a couple issues. Too low and a bullet sticks in the barrel. With marginal twist rate and low velocity, that can be the cause of stability issues.

Starting low can also lead to a lot of wasted time and materials, that is compounded without a chronograph. If you start high, say 12 grains, fire twice and the velocity is 1300 fps and the thing won’t cycle, the project is about finished. If you start at 9 grains and it cycles at 650 fps, then work up until it cracks, you’ll be awhile.

More than one person with a fair amount of experience, have worked up loads that were functional and accurate only to finally check and find out that it was below the minimum velocity they wanted or the bullet needed to function,

Checking sub/not sub by hearing the crack is completely conditions of the day and distance shot reliant. I function check suppressed supers all the time and never get a sonic crack. If the bullet never out runs the gasses coming out of the muzzle, it won’t crack. I shoot into a bullet trap at 3-4’ and never get a sound.

Subs without a suppressor are difficult to hear the silence past the muzzle blast, if they are only traveling 25 yards.

Personally my shooting temps vary well over 100 degrees, so without a chronograph all my sub loads would need to be developed in the winter at say -30, instead of when convenient and warm.

It’s not that it can’t be done the described in the OP, there are just more convenient ways with less cost and risk. As a disclaimer, I would be lying if I said I have not done the exact same thing trying a new powder/bullet combo. If you can load and shoot at home or the range, assembling a few rounds and shooting them takes less time than to set up the chronograph and a lot of valuable information can be gained.
I do load at home and my range is in my back yard. I was, technically, certain that a bullet had to travel past its own gasses to actually develop the audible crack, but lacked sound(pun not intended) data or research to confirm that. However, I have long since reasoned that an object had to be moving through a rather stabile body of fluid (air). Also am aware that other factors, including ambient temperatures and pressure will affect the transsonic speed.
I hope I conveyed this clearly as I am not formally educated much beyond public high school and several tech certificates.

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