110gr ZMAX Failure to Fire only first round

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alaikiek
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Re: 110gr ZMAX Failure to Fire only first round

Post by alaikiek » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:22 pm

sorry just saw your reply.

Quick answer they were all american eagle green tip .223 cut down. Fully cleaned and resized using all lee dies with two or three passes with the resizing die. The first test firing was with 135gr factory hunting loads. Then I tested 150gr ladder load that worked fine. Then I tried a 110gr. Tac-TX ladder load and worked fine. Next outing was with a ladder load 110gr ZMax using the same ladder load as the previous test and that when I ran into first ammo misfire. Only difference between the two 110gr load is different OAL that I followed from my books and online data. I'm sure the VMax was shorter, but I don't have that info with me.

Thanks for everyone help and giving me some thought to do. I'll get back to you after the weekend. Hope everyone else playing and having fun too,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Ala

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plant.one
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Re: 110gr ZMAX Failure to Fire only first round

Post by plant.one » Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:29 pm

alaikiek wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:22 pm
Fully cleaned and resized using all lee dies with two or three passes with the resizing die.
lee resizing dies are NOT forming dies.

please read that line twice or more. we'll wait.







did you read it or cheat and skip down to this line? naughty cheater skipping to the end of the book!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:








ok now you can finish reading my post







there have been dozens of documented failures to properly form brass with them here on this forum alone and lee SPECIFICALLY notes on their website that their dies are designed for RESIZING and NOT forming.

occasionally people do have luck with them, but its more of the exception than the rule.


get a hornady, or RCBS, or forster, etc brand die and try forming them again.
i bet you'll have much better luck in the future.
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masblackbelt
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Re: 110gr ZMAX Failure to Fire only first round

Post by masblackbelt » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:11 am

plant.one wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:29 pm
alaikiek wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:22 pm
Fully cleaned and resized using all lee dies with two or three passes with the resizing die.
lee resizing dies are NOT forming dies.


get a hornady, or RCBS, or forster, etc brand die and try forming them again.
i bet you'll have much better luck in the future.
I can agree with this... As a general rule I stay away from Lee dies. I've had good luck with my RCBS dies so far, they treat me well.
You learn something new everyday when you're as dumb as I am...

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dellet
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Re: 110gr ZMAX Failure to Fire only first round

Post by dellet » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:24 am

masblackbelt wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:11 am
plant.one wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:29 pm
alaikiek wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:22 pm
Fully cleaned and resized using all lee dies with two or three passes with the resizing die.
lee resizing dies are NOT forming dies.


get a hornady, or RCBS, or forster, etc brand die and try forming them again.
i bet you'll have much better luck in the future.
I can agree with this... As a general rule I stay away from Lee dies. I've had good luck with my RCBS dies so far, they treat me well.


Four different bullets, same brass, same dies.

Only one jams.

Not likely the dies.

alaikiek wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:22 pm
sorry just saw your reply.

Quick answer they were all american eagle green tip .223 cut down. Fully cleaned and resized using all lee dies with two or three passes with the resizing die. The first test firing was with 135gr factory hunting loads. Then I tested 150gr ladder load that worked fine. Then I tried a 110gr. Tac-TX ladder load and worked fine. Next outing was with a ladder load 110gr ZMax using the same ladder load as the previous test and that when I ran into first ammo misfire. Only difference between the two 110gr load is different OAL that I followed from my books and online data. I'm sure the VMax was shorter, but I don't have that info with me.

Thanks for everyone help and giving me some thought to do. I'll get back to you after the weekend. Hope everyone else playing and having fun too,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Ala
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.

alaikiek
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Re: 110gr ZMAX Failure to Fire only first round

Post by alaikiek » Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:25 pm

masblackbelt wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:11 am
plant.one wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:29 pm
alaikiek wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:22 pm
Fully cleaned and resized using all lee dies with two or three passes with the resizing die.
lee resizing dies are NOT forming dies.


get a hornady, or RCBS, or forster, etc brand die and try forming them again.
i bet you'll have much better luck in the future.
I can agree with this... As a general rule I stay away from Lee dies. I've had good luck with my RCBS dies so far, they treat me well.

WOW!!!!! I've never heard or read this. I've been reading and studying for several month all the post I can about reloading 300BLK and this never came up across not to use Lee full case resizing die to reshape cut down .223. I scanned the post on this board back 25 pages or so to 2017 and didn't see anything. Maybe because I wasn't looking for that problem? Even the couple tutorials I watched/read said run 2-3 time through full case resizing dies. I did a search and found a post in 2014 regarding Lee dies. If this is true and a reoccurring problem with Lee dies, maybe it might be a good idea to sticky it to the front page? Could save some newbie like my some headache hassle or something even more catastrophic.

Ok with that potential problem resolved, I am going to put off using homemade cut down brass for now and just use factory 300BLK brass. I do have 60 factory loads that is stamped 300BO that I can clean and reuse. I also have a box of brand new starline brass that I believe is stamped 300BO, and also a box of reformed .223 brass from carolinabrass.net that was gifted to me, but they look like a reputable maker. My next reload I will use the new starline brass and my cleaned once fired factory ammo to eliminate any reshaping problems.

Given the problems I had with last outing I think I will just redue my load ladder again for both the 110 TAC-TX & ZMAX and go have another range session and see how it goes. With Thanksgiving upon us may not get it done before this weekend, but I will definitely get back to this post with my results.

And +1 on buying a new RCBS, Hornady or Dillon full case forming die, on my list to do before re-tackling making my own brass.

Thank You ,
Ala

Sig220
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Re: 110gr ZMAX Failure to Fire only first round

Post by Sig220 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:00 pm

I wish you the best, but wish you would pick up a case gauge! You will thank us all later and it will serve you well down the road.

Happy Thanksgiving!

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rebel
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Re: 110gr ZMAX Failure to Fire only first round

Post by rebel » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:55 pm

Is the bullet 308 in diameter?
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masblackbelt
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Re: 110gr ZMAX Failure to Fire only first round

Post by masblackbelt » Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:25 am

Dellet makes a good point... While it might be wise to look into another brand of die, I think you do have another problem. I would encourage you to continue working to resolve it, as it will be a great learning experience and rewarding. I believe Dellet to be far more experienced than me at reloading, so I would certainly listen to what he has to say.
You learn something new everyday when you're as dumb as I am...

Baltimoreed11754
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Re: 110gr ZMAX Failure to Fire only first round

Post by Baltimoreed11754 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:32 pm

I wound up buying a hornady case neck trimmer to solve my chambering issues. The variations in neck thickness between 223 to 300 blkout brass is pretty extreme. Some pieces would just barely touch the cutter on the runout while other brass would shave a curl of brass. Now I have almost no problems chambering. Plus it makes the case neck uniform which should make at least the neck tension uniform even if case volume isn’t. I’d get a mic and check your brass neck thickness.
As to the op’s first comment, my thinking is that as his reloads are a little tight for his chamber as it takes a couple of tries to get swaged down enough to allow the bcg to go into battery and fire. After that he has the extra force of the buffer and buffer spring to drive the next round into the chamber and the bcg into battery so his other rounds fire fine. Been experiencing the same thing today as I try to get my AR up and running after a very long absence from shooting or handloading for it. Fired 35 loads and had 3 that eventually chambered and fired. I think that I might set my trimmer back up and hit them one more time.
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