Powder Shootout. CFE Black vs A1680

[alamo5000]

As you guys know I am brand new to 300 Black.

Honestly I am quite the prepper (I try to avoid the term hoarder) when it comes to ammo. Once I find stuff that I like I will stock up and just buy a couple of #8lb jugs of what I like.

Usually I just get a #1lb bottle of the powders I want to try and test before I commit, but for some reason my local stores do not carry either of these powders.

I will be loading primarily subsonics, but I do not rule out the possibility of chasing down some impressive supers too at some point. Do these two powders have any real difference to them? Where would one shine and the other not so much? At this point I am almost convinced that I couldn't go wrong buying #8lbs of each. I know, I know. That is a LOT of shooting. By my count with 16 pounds of powder I could get around 9,000 rounds made up.

This is not a bad thing. Once I settle on good bullets I will do everything I can to buy in bulk. Then again maybe just one #8lb jug would do me for a while.

Are there any other proven powders that I should try? Reloader 7 maybe? I ask about this one because I see published data showing subsonic performance with 165 to 180 grain bullets, which I can get those bullets in bulk packs for a lot cheaper.

I have #1lb of H110 which is pretty much the only powder I have now for 300 BLK. So far I have nothing to complain about except I am having a hard time getting subsonic velocities out of it. H110 is the sole powder I have tried so far.

If I absolutely must, and I absolutely cannot find a store anywhere near me that can get 1lb containers of each powder in I might have to bite the bullet and pay hazmat, shipping and so forth for something I've never laid eyes on.

I am confident that both would be fine choices but it might be worth it for me to stock both powders if there is reason to do so. The jury is still out on Reloader 7.

If there are other good choices out there please let me know. Lil Gun? Who knows.

I am kind of having a hard time making up my mind. I might call down to some local shops and ask them if they can special order some powders for me. The worse thing that can happen is they say no. That would be ideal but the price might be high.

[Freedom1973]

What is your rifle/barrel setup?

You are going to find more load data on A1680.
I would also like to say it is dirty when used subsonic and can be loud if you care about that.
More info would be helpful.

[alamo5000]

What is your rifle/barrel setup?

You are going to find more load data on A1680.
I would also like to say it is dirty when used subsonic and can be loud if you care about that.
More info would be helpful.

My rifle is a 9" Ballistic Advantage barrel with a Griffin Recce 7 suppressor. SLR handguard, SLR adjustable block, CMT upper/lower, aimpoint T2, magpul furniture, CMC 3.5lb single stage trigger...

I am brand new to 300 BLK so really I am kind of a blank slate. I really wish I could find #1lb jugs of these and other powders locally in stock. That would answer many of my questions. I haven't settled on a good plinking bullet just yet. I would like to gravitate towards the 225 grain Hornady, or even a heavier bullet if it wasn't so expensive or if they sold them in bulk.

As far as loud, what powders are NOT loud? (I am being serious... which ones are less loud?) I am an open book. I know so far the Hornady 208 grain ammo is so far the quietest stuff I have shot to date. If I knew what kind of powder they used on that I would give it a go.

If the powder functions the gun properly and allows me to get consistent velocity I can go through and test a little #1lb jug with no problem. If the powder works I can definitely use it all up eventually.

I have a tendency to buy stuff in bulk whenever I buy.

If I can identify several reliable 300 BLK powders I might just buy online and suck it up and pay hazmat, shipping, etc.

Maybe I should rephrase my title into 'top 5 powders' or something like that. I just put those two in the title because that's what everyone seems to like.

[rebel]

Alamo, unlike other forums where this would be considered flaming, I want you to know that I am definitely not doing this to you. From a few of your posts, you seem to be fairly knowledgeable so I will speak to you in that manner.
CFE BLK was very exciting when it's release was announced but did not set the 300 Blk reloading world on fire. I will say up front, after dellet tested, I didn't bother ordering any. This subject has been beaten to death, suffice it to say dellet's tests were good enough for me and it saved me a bit of money.
As far as 1680, suppressed it's dirty as hell. And yes, louder than other powders. It will cycle anything with the correct load provided the system is up to snuff. Where it does shine is heavier supers. Like CFE BLK, it seems work better compressed however comparing notes I'd say 1680 might have a wider array of use. Could be wrong on that point, if so I'm sure I'll be corrected.
Don't limit yourself to just these two choices because you have them or they are available locally. Powder Valley or if you have a good rapport with your LGS, can provide you with a better choice. VV N120 and VV N110 have proven to be excellent sub powders. Clean with good gas volume. If you only have the two powders you mentioned, there is a ton of info in pet loads on 1680.
All this of course is JMO and subject to debate.
Hope this helps.

[alamo5000]

Alamo, unlike other forums where this would be considered flaming, I want you to know that I am definitely not doing this to you. From a few of your posts, you seem to be fairly knowledgeable so I will speak to you in that manner.
CFE BLK was very exciting when it's release was announced but did not set the 300 Blk reloading world on fire. I will say up front, after dellet tested, I didn't bother ordering any. This subject has been beaten to death, suffice it to say dellet's tests were good enough for me and it saved me a bit of money.
As far as 1680, suppressed it's dirty as hell. And yes, louder than other powders. It will cycle anything with the correct load provided the system is up to snuff. Where it does shine is heavier supers. Like CFE BLK, it seems work better compressed however comparing notes I'd say 1680 might have a wider array of use. Could be wrong on that point, if so I'm sure I'll be corrected.
Don't limit yourself to just these two choices because you have them or they are available locally. Powder Valley or if you have a good rapport with your LGS, can provide you with a better choice. VV N120 and VV N110 have proven to be excellent sub powders. Clean with good gas volume. If you only have the two powders you mentioned, there is a ton of info in pet loads on 1680.
All this of course is JMO and subject to debate.
Hope this helps.

You're not flaming me! I appreciate it a lot in fact. That doesn't even come anywhere near the realm of flaming to me. LOL!!!

I can only imagine that the topic has been beaten to death. I am a fairly experienced reloader but the sheer number and combinations for 300 BLK are just crazy.

My dilemma is that I am pretty much totally in the dark when it comes to 300 BLK. There is just so much variations in loads. Every other caliber on the planet save but a few 'subsonic' isn't even taken into account. In this case though that is what I am primarily after. Also I live fairly rural so there isn't much choice or places to shop so I am kind of asking the same but a unique question I guess.

If I can come up with a list of say four or five good powders to try I will order from Powder Valley and just bite the bullet on the shipping and hazmat. When I buy stuff they are my go to people.

Right now my main and primary focus is on subsonics and suppressed shooting. If there are powders that are known to be quieter that is precisely the kind of info I want to get.

I am literally just feeling around in the dark though. Believe me, I a not married to ANY powder by any stretch. Once I get the powders to try that have a good track record then I can settle my own debate through my own tests.

Considering my primary goals of suppression and subsonics this powder selection thing is the hurdle I am at now. You guys shoot powders I've never even heard of but if I can get 4 or 5 choices down that are good for my stated purposes it will eliminate the need for me to buy one pound of $70 powder only to find out that might not be the best.

[alamo5000]

Kind of adding to that previous comment, like I said the sheer amount of combinations are crazy. The idea to have jacketed, plated, powder coated, and Hi Tek coated bullets is overwhelming almost in and of itself. Naturally I want to shoot more for less but I also don't want to waste my time on junk powders that are known to be 'meh'.

For me if I had to place my priorities in order:

1. Functionality. I obviously want my gun to run.
2. Quiet. The whole idea of me getting into 300 BLK at all was for the quiet factor.
3. Consistency. This means consistency in charging as well as velocity. I would prefer a ball type powder to a stick powder because it's easier to meter.
4. Accuracy. I don't shoot 300 BLK with super accuracy in mind. Keep in mind I am saying that from the perspective of if I am less than 1/4 MOA out of some guns I get mad. With one of my ARs I put a single 10 shot group up once that I could easily cover all the outside edges with a dime (.7 inches) at 100 yards.

I don't ever plan to shoot 300 BLK past 100 yards at best. 100 and in, probably mostly in the 50 to 75 yard range at best. 2-3 inches at 100 yards is more than enough for me.

I place a lot more priority on being quiet. I shot some of that Remington 220gr stuff and I will never buy that again if I can help it. That stuff is LOUD for subsonic ammo. Conversely 208 gr Hornady was a pleasure to shoot.

If I can get the right ammo put together I can and probably will shoot the holy living crap out of 300 BLK. I will have myself a bona fide pig slayer too. Eventually I might even purchase some reasonable night vision so I can go out in the dark and rid the world of some bacon.

Just the sheer amount of different bullets and powders is pretty much overwhelming. I have a whole bunch of Hi Tek coated bullets and they seem to shoot great but the only powder I have tried at all was Hodgon H110. Keeping those bullets under the subsonic level with that powder is a chore. Right about the 9gr level I get powder shift. My velocity is spread 60+ fps. If I bump it up to 9.1 gr though I get a spread of 10fps or less regardless of what I do, but those velocities average about 1130 to 1140 fps. That's too fast for my needs so I need different powder.

Of course if I only shot on days that it's over 90 degrees F I would be fine but that's not the case. They feed right, the gun runs, but the speed is too high for those particular bullets.

I'm told it's more like loading for plain lead vs copper jackets which to me this is a brand new thing as well. It's just one more variable in there that is causing brain overload.

[Freedom1973]

Alamo,
I started into 300blk using A1680 and IMR4227 because I got lucky when powders and components were in short supply. I have moved forward into N120 for my carbine gas 16" and N110 for my pistol gas 8" AR. These are cleaner and quieter in my rifles.
These are small stick powders and meter pretty well in my opinion. There are multiple threads in the forum as to finding the quietest load. There are a lot of variables that can send you in circles. PRESSURES CAN BE AN ISSUE. (Read the thread on "Building a quiet SBR") and proceed with caution.
Get your hands on a copy of Hornady's Reloading manual #9. and talk with the Guys in the Cast Bullet area about powders as well.
I use N-120 and IMR4227 with the 245gr/265gr DS Specials with excellent results.

I am currently working on my N-110 AR pistol loads. I have had a few bumps in the road due to a small piece of brass lodged in my port. Talk about wasted time and materials. I asked for help because the data wasn't adding up. Dellet helped me out as my pistol configuration is different the the standard build. Ask lots of questions. Good luck and Safe loading.

[rebel]

As alamo mentioned, there are a lot of variables. That brings up your top 5 powder list. I would need to put caveats on every powder for it's specific use. For me it would look something like this -
1. Fast up to 150 gr - H110/W296
2. Heavier supers 150 and up, function testing ARs for subs - A1680
3. Go to sub powder - N120
4. Sub powder for pistol gas - N110
5. super quiet bolt or single shot - trail boss and a myriad of other fast powders
That's just me. Those are my favorites for the uses I listed.

[wildfowler]

I’ll admit that I stopped reading after your second sentence where you stated you were quite the prepper. 1680 will work for anything you can do with a 300 blackout. You just may not be able to squeeze enough of it in a case for lighter weight supersonic bullets. It will definitely go bang and cycle your rifle It just may not have the highest velocity that’s possible with other powders. 1680 cycle my rifle using a couple of different 110 grain bullets at 19 grains and up. I think I may have actually gone as high as 22 grains but never really increased velocity in my 10 inch barrel?

1680 can be difficult to find and I buy 16 pounds at a time when I do find it.

[alamo5000]

I’ll admit that I stopped reading after your second sentence where you stated you were quite the prepper.

What's the point of this comment or attitude? Seriously. Why should I listen to what you have to say if that's your attitude?

I am not a 'prepper' per se... but when times are good I stock up. I buy primers when primers are full on the shelves. I buy bullets and powder in quantities that last me.

When other people were out hunting down and paying $50 for a box of 9mm I didn't have to buy hardly anything.

When I go into a caliber I plan to actually shoot that caliber, not just hang a cool looking rifle up on the wall. This means when times are good I buy enough critical components to allow me at least 5,000 to 10,000 rounds, and sometimes more than that depending on the caliber. It costs me an arm and a leg but I am not the guy that was in Wal Mart buying up all the bricks of .22LR. I bought my .22 by the case back when nobody thought they would want or need it and plus I got it on sale because the store was over stocked.

This is how I choose to operate my shooting sport/addiction. A pretty gun hanging on the wall is no good without ammo. This is how I choose to spend my money so call it what you may.

Sorry but your comment came across to me as not being very constructive and rubbed me wrong. The rest of the post was great and thank you, but for some reason it didn't come off well to me. It's impossible to tell intent or tone over the internet so no worries. /Rant off

---

Now back to the topic at hand.

That is extremely interesting about the VV powders. I am 100% going to put those on the 'must have/must test' list.

I am unsure about getting rifle powder that won't cycle my action. Trail Boss? Maybe...I guess if I wanted to turn my AR into a single shot and wanted to shoot a light sub, and stay super ninja quiet then it would be handy for sure. What say you guys? Useful to test out or no? (I am soliciting opinions).

In an ideal world I will get powders that will work IE cycle my pistol length gas system on a 9" barreled SBR.

If I can get say 5 various powders that will make the whole hazmat and shipping thing have less bite to it. Another thing that would be interesting to try is a powder where I can make light subs, say 180gr because those bullets come in bulk packs and are way cheaper. I don't know if such a powder exists that will allow that kind of round while still functioning a semi auto AR.

Before this is totally done (the thread) I will try to make a list. If it has 5 powders that's fine. If it has 6 or 7 that's fine too. But it will only be run out of one gun... a 9" SBR.

I am going to try a variety of bullets, and my little foray into that (Hi Tek coated bullets) has already taught me a lot. It's a whole different dynamic that I am still learning.

Anyway keep the ideas rolling guys. I truly appreciate your help an expertise in this.