Vihtavouri N110, clean and accurate

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ozleux
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Re: Vihtavouri N110, clean and accurate

Post by ozleux » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:19 pm

dellet wrote:No love for N105 and Tinstar yet :lol:

As far as velocity loss with N110 vs H110 I've only experienced about 10%, but then again I have never pushed it to the max with a 110 bullet so I can't say where the top end is.

2000 fps+ is easy with a 125, so if that's all your getting with a 110, you've left a lot on the table.

Good that more people are using the Vihtavuori powders. That helps insure they keep importing it.
Tinstar has become my go to for subs in a bolt gun for the 300blk.
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cwlongshot
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Re: Vihtavouri N110, clean and accurate

Post by cwlongshot » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:33 pm

I stand corrected... Trusted a CRS memory. :mrgreen: :oops: :oops:

I went back to my picture files and 17.5 was my top loading with 110NV and it netted me 2244.

Image

19.7 of 296 netted me 2348 with a Barnes 110.

Image

And lastly 20.5 of MP 300 netted me 2340 with another 110 Z-Max

Image

I always get lower numbers than folks I speak with on line. I chalk it up to "authors privilege" I have two chronos and have used them together. My velocities across both are very close.

One that suprized me. I loaded up 100 Nickle cases same load but using Nosler BT 125's and same 19.7 296 load. Same OAL 2.257. This was colder temps, is 296 that temp sensitive?

Image

As a rule, loads I have tried some of your suggestions. Dellet, your more comfortable "pushing things" than I am. :mrgreen:

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Re: Vihtavouri N110, clean and accurate

Post by dellet » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:19 pm

cwlongshot wrote:I stand corrected... Trusted a CRS memory. :mrgreen: :oops: :oops:

I went back to my picture files and 17.5 was my top loading with 110NV and it netted me 2244.

Image

19.7 of 296 netted me 2348 with a Barnes 110.

Image

And lastly 20.5 of MP 300 netted me 2340 with another 110 Z-Max

Image

I always get lower numbers than folks I speak with on line. I chalk it up to "authors privilege" I have two chronos and have used them together. My velocities across both are very close.

One that suprized me. I loaded up 100 Nickle cases same load but using Nosler BT 125's and same 19.7 296 load. Same OAL 2.257. This was colder temps, is 296 that temp sensitive?

Image

As a rule, loads I have tried some of your suggestions. Dellet, your more comfortable "pushing things" than I am. :mrgreen:

CW
That looks like a better set of numbers.

As for the load in the nickle cases, all I can think of is neck tension possibly being low. That's a pretty short bullet to load that long. You probably only have .060-.080" bearing surface in the neck. The nickle is a harder probably slicker surface than brass.

So less neck tension possibly poor ignition and a heavier bullet might make sense. 20 grains under a 125 grain bullet I would expect 2200+, but I would have been loading it at a shorter COL so higher pressure.

I'd revisit that load.
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Re: Vihtavouri N110, clean and accurate

Post by cwlongshot » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:52 pm

Its seated alot deeper than that, these are 125's. But neck Tension or cold temps is my houts... Its same OAL, plenty in case and previous brass cased loads went right at 2200. But there I go on memory again...

This is my buddies load 17.7 H110 125 SST seated to canalure.

Image

I remember besting that velocity and rightfully so as I am more than a grain more powder same barrel length.

Since that nickle cased loading, I have been playing with different kinds of crimping. For years I have dissed the FCD. But I see improvements in my 35/45 loads when using it. I generally use a Redding taper crimp die for a light crimp, more to smooth out the case mouth then really crimp and I do same with FCD, its very light and many times not really visually noticeable. But some I have used a heavier crimp and see zero negative effects. But even my "heavy" isnt effecting the bullet much at all. (Yes I have pulled to check.)

My top loading for my Aries SCR is a 110 varmintgeddon just .125 deep! I have to be careful only to chamber ONCE! The bullet can be shot out of the case just cambering a couple times! But its shoots nearly bug holes form the skinny 16" green mountain barrel! I usd them last Saturday in my AR 300 and had exactly that happen going back in for the afternoon... bullet popped right out stuck in barrel enough hitting it with my palm would not dislodge it... Good thing I had my H&R handi rifle (300 BO) under the back seat!!

CW
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Re: Vihtavouri N110, clean and accurate

Post by dellet » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:46 pm

Nosler has the boattail, I know it's short, I've never measured it but...

Bullet 1.060"+ Case 1.365" = 2.425" - COL 2.255" = seated depth .170" bearing surface for neck tension will be .170" less the boattail.

The 125 SST is 1.030" long, so unless the tail on the Nolser is less than .030", there will be less bullet to hold onto at the same length.

The SST will also take up more volume in the case because you'll lose more from the taper of the tail, than the extra .030" of length.

So, same charge weight, less bullet in the neck, lower load density, and less friction on the seating surface, all add up to less velocity.

Then depending on whose study you believe, 1 fps per degree of cartridge temp, losing 200 fps at the muzzle may not be so surprising.

I have never really seen an issue with 296 being overly temp sensitive and my winter summer splits can be over 100 degrees.
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Re: Vihtavouri N110, clean and accurate

Post by cwlongshot » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:32 am

Ill have to look... But was pretty sure the Varmintgeddons where FB bullets...

Ill look tonight.

Yea, guess I knew that but didn't realize...

Never got to the range this weekend... Guns are piling up that need shootin... maybe next weekend, if momma is working its almost assured. If she is home... probably not. :)

STILL waiting on my 40 S&W PCC... darn it its SLOOOWW arriving! I ordered it back on my birthday (November 13) ... NEVER expected it to take this long...

Now I am doubting ill even see it this year!! ;( :shock: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

CW
RARR 300 BLK
Ares SCR 300 BLK
TROY "other" 300 BLK
DSI based build w/18” 300 BLK (Neutered fixed mag)



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Re: Vihtavouri N110, clean and accurate

Post by rebel » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:26 am

cwlongshot wrote:Ill have to look... But was pretty sure the Varmintgeddons where FB bullets...

Ill look tonight.

Yea, guess I knew that but didn't realize...

Never got to the range this weekend... Guns are piling up that need shootin... maybe next weekend, if momma is working its almost assured. If she is home... probably not. :)

STILL waiting on my 40 S&W PCC... darn it its SLOOOWW arriving! I ordered it back on my birthday (November 13) ... NEVER expected it to take this long...

Now I am doubting ill even see it this year!! ;( :shock: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

CW
CW, you talk about getting slower numbers and what you chalk it up to, in many cases that may be true but I'll tell you what I have found.
Sam Hall, who lives here in my state and is well known in the BR community,
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... qyrLdVm37D

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... pbpu-5Kjpi

will buy like 20 barrels at a time. All from one manufacturer. He tries them all on one rifle and picks the two he wants and sells the rest. Some barrels shoot faster or slower, even with the same twist rate. We mere mortals buy one barrel and hope for the best :lol: It's usually within 50 fps of one another but I have seen some fast barrels shoot consistently 75 fps more than expectations.
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Re: Vihtavouri N110, clean and accurate

Post by dellet » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:22 am

cwlongshot wrote:Ill have to look... But was pretty sure the Varmintgeddons where FB bullets...

Ill look tonight.

Yea, guess I knew that but didn't realize...

Never got to the range this weekend... Guns are piling up that need shootin... maybe next weekend, if momma is working its almost assured. If she is home... probably not. :)

STILL waiting on my 40 S&W PCC... darn it its SLOOOWW arriving! I ordered it back on my birthday (November 13) ... NEVER expected it to take this long...

Now I am doubting ill even see it this year!! ;( :shock: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

CW
One of us needs another cup of coffee
Image

The Varmageddon bullet is a 110 FB with a black tip.

Above I thought you were comparing a 125 Ballistic, green tip boat tail that you have pictured, to a 125 SST FB and also to 110 grain bullet speed. I'm not sure now :oops:
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.

riude
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Re: Vihtavouri N110, clean and accurate

Post by riude » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:38 am

for subs in bolt action, N340 beats N110 10-0 in loudness and accuracy.

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Re: Vihtavouri N110, clean and accurate

Post by MMA10mm » Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:41 pm

Dr.Phil wrote:
dellet wrote:No love for N105 and Tinstar yet :lol:

As far as velocity loss with N110 vs H110 I've only experienced about 10%, but then again I have never pushed it to the max with a 110 bullet so I can't say where the top end is.

2000 fps+ is easy with a 125, so if that's all your getting with a 110, you've left a lot on the table.
17.0 Grains of N110 with a 125 SMK in a 10" barrel = ~ 2,100 fps.
Yes, it leaves a lot on the table for velocity, but I haven't seen a more accurate powder.
For MATCH ammo, I would consider it to be optimal.
That is for both Supers and Subs.

Vihtavouri announced that they have some new "High Energy" powders coming out in 2018.
They are for the Big Bore Magnums, but it is hopeful that they might develop one for 300 BLK. (4,000 J/g ratio)
N110 is already at the high end for energy to weight ratio though. (3,950 J/g ratio)
http://www.vihtavuori.com/en/n100

One other thing that most folks don't know.
All Vihtavouri powders produced this year forward, contain copper fouling remover.
I used to know a couple guys from VV. Met them when they came over to the US the first time for Kaltron-Pettibone. Alas, that was about 20 years ago, and we've lost touch...

Are they expanding their N500-series to more powders? I'd be surprised to see an N510, but, who knows??

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