First time reloader... best expanding bullets for subsonic 300 blk?

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dellet
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Re: First time reloader... best expanding bullets for subsonic 300 blk?

Post by dellet »

19dsniper wrote:
springvalleyarms wrote:Thanks for all of this discussion.. I will be re-reading a few times and seeing what is out there there is affordable to get started with.

Two followup questions:

1. I see that Gemtech makes a popular 187GR subsonic that many on the forums have commented is a good hunting round. Is that true, and, if so, what bullet is used in its contruction? It is already one of the cheaper rounds I see, so I would only assume it could be handloaded quite affordably, if it really works as an expanding subsonic load.

2. My barrel is a 10.3 inch 1:7 twist. Would I run into any issues with loads as light as 110 grain with this fast of a twist? Don't want to increase the likelihood of bullets shredding in flight or baffle strikes and such...
Im not familiar with the 187 enough to comment on its effectiveness. I do know that on their website they state: "GEMTECH's subsonic 187gr 300 Blackout ammunition was created to give the quiet shooter an affordable and dependable training round and just like our .22lr, outperforms other training rounds with consistent dependability and accuracy. Our subsonic ammunition features a 187 grain polymer tipped projectile that provides excellent stopping power making it an excellent deer or hog hunting round and perfect for home defense use."

I don't see anything that says it is an expanding projectile at subsonic velocity. It states that it is "an affordable and dependable training round". If others are getting them to expand at subsonic velocities, i may have to look into it myself! Looks interesting.

As far as using the 7 twist and 110 grain projectiles, I have used a 7 twist RARR with excellent results. I didn't have any issues running a 7 twist 16" at high rpm.
This is my group before bedding:

Image

This is my group after bedding:

Image

Both 5 shot groups at 100 yards.

Let me do this real time and lets figure it out together: MV X 720/Twist Rate = RPM
My figures/load/rifle: 2,334x720/=1680480/7= 240,068 RPM

That same load is moving at 2,200 out of my 10.5" so lets ASSUME that is approximately the same velocity you will get with your barrel.
2,200x720=1584000/7=226,285

So as you can see, this same load is moving at 13,783 RPM SLOWER than the 16" gun.


As far as a baffle strike, if your not already familiar with how to check, just make sure that you set a target out in front of you at short range and after shooting the target WITHOUT your suppressor attached, check the holes in the target to make sure that they are round. Any "tail" and the bullet is not stable and i would not shoot them thru a suppressor.

I had a similar question to yours as far as bullet stability and asked another forum member a very similar question just the other day. You may have to take your estimated velocity and figure out the RPM and then contact Hornady, Nosler, or some of the other companies and see if they have any information on Max RPM, but in my experience, it hasn't been an issue with 7 twist and 110 grain projectiles.
The 187 Gemtech only expands when shooting concrete or steel, it probably tumbles since it is very back heavy. Not available as a component as far as I know. Would not be my choice for a hunting bullet, too many good ones out there.

Both the 110 V-max and Varmegeddon hold MOA to 200 yards at 340,000 RPM. Have never had one come apart as far as 300 yards.

The Barnes Blacktip comes apart around 275,000 rpm. 2600 in 1/7

Nice shooting sniper, guessing you possibly earned the title.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.
19dsniper
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Re: First time reloader... best expanding bullets for subsonic 300 blk?

Post by 19dsniper »

Recoil737 wrote:Here is the difference between a 147gr 9mm vs. 194gr Lehigh Defense shot into the same media:

Image


The edges are almost razor sharp once it has expanded.

Wow! Now thats impressive! Thanks for the pic. Im looking into them more now!


Update: I just realized that those are the same ones i tested already. The angle threw me off a little. For the OP's intended purpose it may be perfect. For me, I went with the 200 REX instead as it held together a little better and was more consistent. Not that there is anything wrong with the others. It shed its petals and thats not what i was looking for at the time.
Its unbelievable how far 300 BLK has come. We have all preached it from the beginning that it should be fairly simple to scale a subsonic, expanding projectile up from pistol specs. to .30 cal specs. Im glad some listened and we, the end user are finally able to get our hands on some of this stuff.
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dellet
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Re: First time reloader... best expanding bullets for subsonic 300 blk?

Post by dellet »

19dsniper wrote:
Recoil737 wrote:Here is the difference between a 147gr 9mm vs. 194gr Lehigh Defense shot into the same media:

Image


The edges are almost razor sharp once it has expanded.

Wow! Now thats impressive! Thanks for the pic. Im looking into them more now!


Update: I just realized that those are the same ones i tested already. The angle threw me off a little. For the OP's intended purpose it may be perfect. For me, I went with the 200 REX instead as it held together a little better and was more consistent. Not that there is anything wrong with the others. It shed its petals and thats not what i was looking for at the time.
Its unbelievable how far 300 BLK has come. We have all preached it from the beginning that it should be fairly simple to scale a subsonic, expanding projectile up from pistol specs. to .30 cal specs. Im glad some listened and we, the end user are finally able to get our hands on some of this stuff.
That's the difference between 3 and 4 petals, more material at the base to hold it together. Then the fracturing are either thinner or the copper is harder so it snaps off instead of bend.

Maker has put a lot of thought into their bullets, but what really sets them apart, is listening to the folks that shoot them and changing what needs to be changed.

Who else would come out with a 110 grain expanding sub bullet for single shot shooting, or a 150 grain sub sonic.

Add in choices of fracturing and he's really catered to the customer.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.
19dsniper
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Re: First time reloader... best expanding bullets for subsonic 300 blk?

Post by 19dsniper »

dellet wrote:
19dsniper wrote:
Recoil737 wrote:Here is the difference between a 147gr 9mm vs. 194gr Lehigh Defense shot into the same media:

Image


The edges are almost razor sharp once it has expanded.

Wow! Now thats impressive! Thanks for the pic. Im looking into them more now!


Update: I just realized that those are the same ones i tested already. The angle threw me off a little. For the OP's intended purpose it may be perfect. For me, I went with the 200 REX instead as it held together a little better and was more consistent. Not that there is anything wrong with the others. It shed its petals and thats not what i was looking for at the time.
Its unbelievable how far 300 BLK has come. We have all preached it from the beginning that it should be fairly simple to scale a subsonic, expanding projectile up from pistol specs. to .30 cal specs. Im glad some listened and we, the end user are finally able to get our hands on some of this stuff.
That's the difference between 3 and 4 petals, more material at the base to hold it together. Then the fracturing are either thinner or the copper is harder so it snaps off instead of bend.

Maker has put a lot of thought into their bullets, but what really sets them apart, is listening to the folks that shoot them and changing what needs to be changed.

Who else would come out with a 110 grain expanding sub bullet for single shot shooting, or a 150 grain sub sonic.

Add in choices of fracturing and he's really catered to the customer.
Absolutely! Paul has worked very hard to listen to customer feedback and to really find out what people want. It gets to be difficult I'm sure, as not everyone wants the same thing. But thats where Maker really starts to shine. Want heavy and slow, no problem. Light and slow, sure, got that too. He not only makes what people asks for, but also keeps it around for others that are interested in the same thing! Yeah, they are al little expensive, I will admit that. Hell, i just spent another $250 with him the other day. But these aren't shot all the time. Thats why i still load and shoot the Vmax and Varmageddon so much. Its just a cost issue. But when my life depends on it, or when i need meat for the freezer, i reach for the Maker bullets. Yes, i have killed MANY deer and a few hogs with 110 Vmax and VMGD. But, as much as i trust those, and they do work well, the REX works that much better. I personally don't see the need for a 110 expanding sub, but for others, that may be exactly what they are looking for, and I'm glad someone is making them!

Anyways, i don't want to thread hijack. Im glad to know that the 110 will hold together at 340,000 rpm! I am looking to see if i can push them faster, or maybe even go with a shorter barrel with a faster twist than my 7". I also have 5 boxes of the Barnes black tip to mess around with. I will keep them under 2600 I'm sure. I will be getting my new Magnetospeed V3 delivered soon and will play with that some to see what i come up with.

BTW, yes, the title was earned in 2007.
19dsniper
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Re: First time reloader... best expanding bullets for subsonic 300 blk?

Post by 19dsniper »

Recoil737 wrote:Here is the difference between a 147gr 9mm vs. 194gr Lehigh Defense shot into the same media:

Image


The edges are almost razor sharp once it has expanded.

Would you mind sharing the information on the 147 grain. It looks to me like its a Speer Gold Dot, but i could be wrong. What was it shot into and what was the velocity? Those are some interesting results!
springvalleyarms
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Re: First time reloader... best expanding bullets for subsonic 300 blk?

Post by springvalleyarms »

dohalysh425 wrote:rainier wedge 180s RN or HP, palmetto projectiles 203 coated, berrys, leatherheads, are good subsonic plinking options

Lehigh defense, Maker bullets, Outlaw State, and Blackout Bullets all make subsonic expanding bullets. The blackout bullets are the cheapest of the group at less than $0.50 a bullet, where the others are close to a $1 a bullet.

The rainier 180 HP do not provide good enough expansion in my book for hunting/HD. I am messing around with them to try to force them to expand at subsonic velocities!

viewtopic.php?f=141&t=101003


(I don't think 300BO subsonic is a great choice for HD anyway due to over penetration, 147gr 9mm HPs may be better and cheaper if you must go the subsonic route)

You mentioned Blackout Bullets... these seems like a very good option if they do what they say... they are 37.5 Cents a round for 1000 now... have you tried them yourself?
Recoil737
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Re: First time reloader... best expanding bullets for subsonic 300 blk?

Post by Recoil737 »

19dsniper wrote:
Recoil737 wrote:Here is the difference between a 147gr 9mm vs. 194gr Lehigh Defense shot into the same media:

Image


The edges are almost razor sharp once it has expanded.

Would you mind sharing the information on the 147 grain. It looks to me like its a Speer Gold Dot, but i could be wrong. What was it shot into and what was the velocity? Those are some interesting results!
The speer gold dots probably would have done better. This was a rainer hollow point vs the lehigh.

They were both shot into very wet phone books.

I did shoot one lehigh into a dry phone book and it stayed completely intact. I found this very compelling as it showed it would penetrate nicely through a dry medium and expand violently once it hit something wet. I then proceeded to shoot through a small dry phone book with a small gatorade bottle filled with water on the other side. The lehigh made a perfect small hole with no expansion as it passed through the phone book but when it hit the gatorade bottle it exploded and fully expanded inside the small bottle of water.

I know a good 9mm bullet would expand in the wet phone book I just wanted to show the size difference and just how much larger of a wound channel the 194gr lehigh can make versus the 9mm bullet.

As for speed both were subsonic. The lehigh is running close to 900 fps the 9mm I don't know.
19dsniper
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Re: First time reloader... best expanding bullets for subsonic 300 blk?

Post by 19dsniper »

Very interesting! Thanks for the info. That projectile looks very similar to a speer. I need to get some more gel, but i am in the process of trying to figure out which to get. Im tired of taking up an entire refrigerator in the garage.
springvalleyarms
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Re: First time reloader... best expanding bullets for subsonic 300 blk?

Post by springvalleyarms »

Wow that Rainier looks like that AFTER impact? It looks like an un-fired round! :(
Recoil737
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Re: First time reloader... best expanding bullets for subsonic 300 blk?

Post by Recoil737 »

springvalleyarms wrote:Wow that Rainier looks like that AFTER impact? It looks like an un-fired round! :(

Rainiers are my plinking rounds.

I have shot them side by side with the hornady XTP which I use for defense and the hornady definitely works better in expanding.

The rainier HP will expand better than the berry round nose they replaced but I would not take them out for any defensive situation as it is hit or miss on then expanding well.
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