First time reloader... best expanding bullets for subsonic 300 blk?

[dohalysh425]

rainier wedge 180s RN or HP, palmetto projectiles 203 coated, berrys, leatherheads, are good subsonic plinking options

Lehigh defense, Maker bullets, Outlaw State, and Blackout Bullets all make subsonic expanding bullets. The blackout bullets are the cheapest of the group at less than $0.50 a bullet, where the others are close to a $1 a bullet.

The rainier 180 HP do not provide good enough expansion in my book for hunting/HD. I am messing around with them to try to force them to expand at subsonic velocities!

viewtopic.php?f=141&t=101003


(I don't think 300BO subsonic is a great choice for HD anyway due to over penetration, 147gr 9mm HPs may be better and cheaper if you must go the subsonic route)

[dellet]

rainier wedge 180s RN or HP, palmetto projectiles 203 coated, berrys, leatherheads, are good subsonic plinking options

Lehigh defense, Maker bullets, Outlaw State, and Blackout Bullets all make subsonic expanding bullets. The blackout bullets are the cheapest of the group at less than $0.50 a bullet, where the others are close to a $1 a bullet.

The rainier 180 HP do not provide good enough expansion in my book for hunting/HD. I am messing around with them to try to force them to expand at subsonic velocities!

viewtopic.php?f=141&t=101003


(I don't think 300BO subsonic is a great choice for HD anyway due to over penetration, 147gr 9mm HPs may be better and cheaper if you must go the subsonic route)

Then you made a poor choice of bullet and can't blame the cartridge

[dohalysh425]

Dellet, I am not suggesting to blame the 300BO cartridge. Mainly, I am suggesting that subsonic heavy projectiles have a tendency to over penetrate, which is generally bad for civilian home defense.

A run of the mill factory load 9mm subsonic HP tends to penetrate less than your run of the mill factory load subsonic 300BO and they are cheaper. There are 300BO bullets that do very well at expanding and do not over penetrate.

Perhaps I should have made a more specific statement regarding average factory loaded 300BO subsonic HP and average factory loaded 9mm 147 HP.

Regardless, any heavy subsonic bullet runs a higher risk of over penetration than a faster, fragmenting bullet.

[avant4me]

Don't forget gorilla silverback 205gr subsonics.
Cheapest of the three all copper subsonic expanders

[dellet]

Dellet, I am not suggesting to blame the 300BO cartridge. Mainly, I am suggesting that subsonic heavy projectiles have a tendency to over penetrate, which is generally bad for civilian home defense.

A run of the mill factory load 9mm subsonic HP tends to penetrate less than your run of the mill factory load subsonic 300BO and they are cheaper. There are 300BO bullets that do very well at expanding and do not over penetrate.

Perhaps I should have made a more specific statement regarding average factory loaded 300BO subsonic HP and average factory loaded 9mm 147 HP.

Regardless, any heavy subsonic bullet runs a higher risk of over penetration than a faster, fragmenting bullet.

If you choose the wrong bullet for either, you will get the wrong results.

But yes you are correct, a poorly chosen bullet of the same weight, with a a diameter of .355" diameter will penetrate less than poorly chosen bullet of .308" diameter traveling at the same speed.

And a sub sonic fragmenting bullet will stop just as fast as a fast moving fragmenting bullet, possibly faster.

[19dsniper]

My personal choice for a house load in 300 BLK is actually a fragmenting supersonic like a 110 Vmax or similar. Its hard to beat the velocity and i have seen many times what it does on living tissue. It works extremely well without over penetrating.
My 10.2" upper pushes the 110 at approximately: 2,000 FPS giving me 978 FPE.
When you have a bullet with 978 FPE in a bullet that comes apart, it dumps energy real quick.
It also pushes the 200 grain at 1024 fps and around 470 FPE.

If over penetration isn't a concern because of where you live, or the construction of your home, then i would recommend a Maker REX if you are looking for penetrating an intruder such as a grizzly, or some of the subsonic fracturing rounds if your looking to stop "thinner" threats.



If however you are just wanting a subsonic because its cool and why not, I've got a suppressor!, then you may want to read up on some ballistics of light, fast, supersonic, vs heavy, slow, subsonics. The fracturing/fragmenting subsonics are a bit different. Depending on the bullets construction, you may find that it dumps its petals at a shallow depth, but the core still travels deep.

Im not saying this as an attack, just trying to help you out. You asked, we answered. Be careful what you wish for. Glad to see that your doing your due-diligence beforehand. There are a lot of people that just grab whatever is on the shelf. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.

[springvalleyarms]

Thanks for all of this discussion.. I will be re-reading a few times and seeing what is out there there is affordable to get started with.

Two followup questions:

1. I see that Gemtech makes a popular 187GR subsonic that many on the forums have commented is a good hunting round. Is that true, and, if so, what bullet is used in its contruction? It is already one of the cheaper rounds I see, so I would only assume it could be handloaded quite affordably, if it really works as an expanding subsonic load.

2. My barrel is a 10.3 inch 1:7 twist. Would I run into any issues with loads as light as 110 grain with this fast of a twist? Don't want to increase the likelihood of bullets shredding in flight or baffle strikes and such...

[springvalleyarms]

Has anyone tested the Rainier 180 grain subsonic expanding?

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/10182 ... llow-point

[19dsniper]

Thanks for all of this discussion.. I will be re-reading a few times and seeing what is out there there is affordable to get started with.

Two followup questions:

1. I see that Gemtech makes a popular 187GR subsonic that many on the forums have commented is a good hunting round. Is that true, and, if so, what bullet is used in its contruction? It is already one of the cheaper rounds I see, so I would only assume it could be handloaded quite affordably, if it really works as an expanding subsonic load.

2. My barrel is a 10.3 inch 1:7 twist. Would I run into any issues with loads as light as 110 grain with this fast of a twist? Don't want to increase the likelihood of bullets shredding in flight or baffle strikes and such...

Im not familiar with the 187 enough to comment on its effectiveness. I do know that on their website they state: "GEMTECH's subsonic 187gr 300 Blackout ammunition was created to give the quiet shooter an affordable and dependable training round and just like our .22lr, outperforms other training rounds with consistent dependability and accuracy. Our subsonic ammunition features a 187 grain polymer tipped projectile that provides excellent stopping power making it an excellent deer or hog hunting round and perfect for home defense use."

I don't see anything that says it is an expanding projectile at subsonic velocity. It states that it is "an affordable and dependable training round". If others are getting them to expand at subsonic velocities, i may have to look into it myself! Looks interesting.

As far as using the 7 twist and 110 grain projectiles, I have used a 7 twist RARR with excellent results. I didn't have any issues running a 7 twist 16" at high rpm.
This is my group before bedding:



This is my group after bedding:



Both 5 shot groups at 100 yards.

Let me do this real time and lets figure it out together: MV X 720/Twist Rate = RPM
My figures/load/rifle: 2,334x720/=1680480/7= 240,068 RPM

That same load is moving at 2,200 out of my 10.5" so lets ASSUME that is approximately the same velocity you will get with your barrel.
2,200x720=1584000/7=226,285

So as you can see, this same load is moving at 13,783 RPM SLOWER than the 16" gun.


As far as a baffle strike, if your not already familiar with how to check, just make sure that you set a target out in front of you at short range and after shooting the target WITHOUT your suppressor attached, check the holes in the target to make sure that they are round. Any "tail" and the bullet is not stable and i would not shoot them thru a suppressor.

I had a similar question to yours as far as bullet stability and asked another forum member a very similar question just the other day. You may have to take your estimated velocity and figure out the RPM and then contact Hornady, Nosler, or some of the other companies and see if they have any information on Max RPM, but in my experience, it hasn't been an issue with 7 twist and 110 grain projectiles.

[Recoil737]

Here is the difference between a 147gr 9mm vs. 194gr Lehigh Defense shot into the same media:




The edges are almost razor sharp once it has expanded.