180gr rainier plated hollow point subsonic loads

[Bob the nailer]

RL7 seems to be working well in this 1-7 twist AR. Went out to check this load for stability and accuracy at 100 yards, I guess Wedges can be stacked somewhat




100 yard subsonic sub-moa

[TRshootem]

I saw that Dellet had used RL-7, so I rummaged thru my powder looking for the bottle. I think there is enough to determine if I'll need more. Sorry if I missed this, but any other bullet weights that this stuff seems to like? I have a few of the 180 Rainier that a friend left behind, expressing his frustration with his tests so far.

[Disregarded9-Side]

Dellet and Bob,

Thank you both very much for your contributions of time information. Bob's video was extremely informative.

Rather than modify a seating rod in my Lee seating die, I simply flipped it over to the flat side down; or "bottom's up". This immediately solved my COAL issue; I now have only 0.002" max variance when seating. This probably does deform the nose a little bit, however I can not visually verify that. As described I have not shot these for groups yet, so that has not been a concern as of yet.
As Bob describes in the video, the projectiles' OAL varies. This, as y'all know, means that even though my COAL is consistent, without sorting the projectiles by OAL variations will exist cartridge to carriage on how deep the projectile sits in the case, and thusly how much case capacity and pressure exist per load. So in the future I will sort by length.

I'm just about to ladder load these with CCI 550 Magnum primers and everything else the same. I think I'm going to start at 9gr and work down our the Chorny in .2gr increments.

For my firearm, I find H-110 to be the bees-knees with sub's. I guess for people with 16" barrels and some more sensitive gas systems, it doesn't cycle subs well and is thusly ignored. It doesn't look like you guys have experimented with H-110 and these bullets?
Bob, is H-110 a power that you find to be "position sensitive" as described in your video? I could certainly see that being the case, and hope to come up with much more consistent ignition and tighter velocity spreads using magnum primers.
Bob, I also noticed you use standard CCI 400 small rifle primers as opposed to magnum primers with your absurdly accurate sub loads. Can you speak to that decision?

First is your barrel. The early Noveske's had a short throat. That may come into play with pressures on supers and some recommended lengths, so something to be aware of. That may be part of your trouble with supers, high chamber pressure.

This is an interesting point and I'd love to know more about this. Factory or handload, I cannot to better than 2MOA with this 'gun. I have tried $100s of bullet, COAL and powder combos. After last weekend I just gave up with supers and this barrel. I have a sub-MOA 6.8 that is a proven killer several times over if I need power from this platform..... but it does bother the heck out of me!
Any info you could share on this barrel and what's going on with it would be very helpful; though OT for this thread.

Thanks for any thoughts this may provoke, and I hope everyone's looking forward to a fun safe weekend,

[45r]

I've been using viht n-105 for pistol gas in my short barrel upper.
It fills the case good and the most quiet.
I got some more from brownells lately since it's on sale for 28 bucks a lb and free shipping.
If it cycles your in your upper you'll be impressed by how clean,accurate and quiet it shoots.
I don't use anything else for pistol gas since it works so well.
For carbine gas I've been using Re-7,viht n-120,or imr-4227 depending upon what the barrel likes.
The stick powders have worked better for me for sub-sonic.
I use H-110 for 110 to 125 supers and imr-4227 for 150 grain supers.
I get 1 inch groups with the supers and 1.5 to 2 inch with the subs.
I've used viht n-105 for years in magnum revolver loads and the 300blk is more of a 308 handgun round to me.
Many other people use the above powders the most it seems and have followed their advise and they have worked well.

[dellet]

First is your barrel. The early Noveske's had a short throat. That may come into play with pressures on supers and some recommended lengths, so something to be aware of. That may be part of your trouble with supers, high chamber pressure.

This is an interesting point and I'd love to know more about this. Factory or handload, I cannot to better than 2MOA with this 'gun. I have tried $100s of bullet, COAL and powder combos. After last weekend I just gave up with supers and this barrel. I have a sub-MOA 6.8 that is a proven killer several times over if I need power from this platform..... but it does bother the heck out of me!
Any info you could share on this barrel and what's going on with it would be very helpful; though OT for this thread.

Thanks for any thoughts this may provoke, and I hope everyone's looking forward to a fun safe weekend,

Early on Noveske used a either a match chamber or a 300 Fireball reamer. There were some problems blowing primers at mid level loads and even some factory supers. The quote below base the max length recommended by Noveske and that length according to SAAMI would be over 1.7".

For a long time Noveske would swap out the barrels for a new one.

The link is to the thread it was discussed.

Noveske sent a reply to my inquiry about their chamber being a little tight:

Sorry its taken so long to get back you again. The key thing for this round is the Rim to Ogive length. For the Noveske barrels I would recommend using 1.5165" as the MAX Rim to Ogive number.

that's all I have to say about that

viewtopic.php?f=141&t=89440&start=10

Accuracy tho has not ever really been a complaint.

For what it's worth H110/296 can be very case sensitive. To the point of plenty of people blaming it for blowing up revolvers using reduced loads. For a long time Hornady included a warning to not reduce a load more than 3% of published data. That warning disappeared a few years ago. Not sure if the powder changed.

[dellet]

First is your barrel. The early Noveske's had a short throat. That may come into play with pressures on supers and some recommended lengths, so something to be aware of. That may be part of your trouble with supers, high chamber pressure.

This is an interesting point and I'd love to know more about this. Factory or handload, I cannot to better than 2MOA with this 'gun. I have tried $100s of bullet, COAL and powder combos. After last weekend I just gave up with supers and this barrel. I have a sub-MOA 6.8 that is a proven killer several times over if I need power from this platform..... but it does bother the heck out of me!
Any info you could share on this barrel and what's going on with it would be very helpful; though OT for this thread.

Thanks for any thoughts this may provoke, and I hope everyone's looking forward to a fun safe weekend,

Early on Noveske used a either a match chamber or a 300 Fireball reamer. There were some problems blowing primers at mid level loads and even some factory supers. The quote below base the max length recommended by Noveske and that length according to SAAMI would be over 1.7".

For a long time Noveske would swap out the barrels for a new one.

The link is to the thread it was discussed.

Noveske sent a reply to my inquiry about their chamber being a little tight:

Sorry its taken so long to get back you again. The key thing for this round is the Rim to Ogive length. For the Noveske barrels I would recommend using 1.5165" as the MAX Rim to Ogive number.

that's all I have to say about that

viewtopic.php?f=141&t=89440&start=10

Accuracy tho has not ever really been a complaint.

For what it's worth H110/296 can be very case sensitive. To the point of plenty of people blaming it for blowing up revolvers using reduced loads. For a long time Hornady included a warning to not reduce a load more than 3% of published data. That warning disappeared a few years ago. Not sure if the powder changed.

I do use it for subs in a 10" carbine gassed upper, but will only work with a suppressor. It is the fastest powder that will cycle that upper.

[Bob the nailer]

As Bob describes in the video, the projectiles' OAL varies.
Bob, is H-110 a power that you find to be "position sensitive" as described in your video? I could certainly see that being the case, and hope to come up with much more consistent ignition and tighter velocity spreads using magnum primers.
Bob, I also noticed you use standard CCI 400 small rifle primers as opposed to magnum primers with your absurdly accurate sub loads. Can you speak to that decision?

With bullet OAL I am only concerned with bearing length as that will effect pressure and I shoot in groups of similar "bearing" bullet length.
When I started down the rabbit hole with subs I tried several powders and poured thru several load books and talked to members here that are very experienced with reduced loads. H110 is similar to 296 and it didn't shoot well in my 8 twist pistol gassed AR. I found 4227 to be the sweet powder for this rifle, now about CCI400 back when I started I found no huge diffrence in 50 yard groups and groups actually opened up at 100, so I stayed with the 400's. Now that I shoot another 7 twist AR I am trying mag primers with RL7. Just trying to smooth out powder position issues and stabilize SD.
I don't think testing will really ever end