Lethality of 300blk

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riude
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Re: Lethality of 300blk

Post by riude » Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:58 am

dellet wrote:
riude wrote:Sad, that whitetails here in Finland won´t die with 300 blk.
We have strange limit´s:
For whitetail, you must have at least 6 gram bullet, whitch has 2000 joules at 100 meter distance OR 8g bullet, with [email protected] :D.

And for moose, wild boar and bear limits are 9gram/[email protected] or 10g/[email protected]

Clever and practical.
Do they require commercial ammo, or will they test your Handloaded ammo?

The requirements for deer are possible. :mrgreen:
No one will test them, but if you want to obey law, those limits should be fullfilled. And ammo can be handloaded.

I did check deer requirements with Quickload, but did not find any proper solutions. With decent pressures. And my "decent" is quite often more than CIP max.

Translations from SI to some ancient system: :P
2000 joules at 100 meters = 1475ft.lbf at 109yds.
1700J=1250ft.lbf
6 grams = 92.5 grains, 8g=123gr

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riude
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Re: Lethality of 300blk

Post by riude » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:01 am

rebel wrote:I just checked, I don't see any joules on my bullets! Damn :mrgreen:
I knew Finland had a strong hunting tradition but had no idea they were so restrictive.
Some decades ago, there was restriction to not use smaller caliber than 8mm for moose hunting.
Why? To be sure precious Finnish army 7,62x53R rifles won´t be used for hunting :lol:

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dellet
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Re: Lethality of 300blk

Post by dellet » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:26 am

What powders are available?

155grain Bereger hunting VLD, 2050 fps, 1700j at 100 meters.

No problem in 16" barrel :P

I am sorry but but I can not make the bullet 8mm
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riude
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Re: Lethality of 300blk

Post by riude » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:53 am

Vihtavuori, others are quite difficult to get. But some are possible.
I forgot one restriction. Bullet should be "designed to expand"...normal VLD´s ain´t, but perhaps hunting version is.

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dellet
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Re: Lethality of 300blk

Post by dellet » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:32 am

riude wrote:Vihtavuori, others are quite difficult to get. But some are possible.
I forgot one restriction. Bullet should be "designed to expand"...normal VLD´s ain´t, but perhaps hunting version is.
I know those velocities are possible with Accurate 1680 and Lovex DO6302 and the Berger 155. I think they will be possible with Vihtavuori n120 or Norma 200. I can try.

What is your Rifle and barrel length?

I think we could make a 123 grain bullet work, it will depend on the shape. With a Hornady 125 SST it would be very close. Do have a bullet in that weight range that will expand?

I have done a few things that push the limits of the cartridge, it is not a problem to meet the requirements with what is available here. That may not help you there.

This might interest you:
viewtopic.php?f=141&t=96500&start=30

I was able to get 1950 fps with a 175 grain bullet and Norma 200, so I think 2050 will be possible with N120 and the 155. We will see.

From Berger:http://www.bergerbullets.com/hunting-bullet-designs/
HUNTING BULLETS
The Hunting bullet line is proving to be the most lethal big game hunting bullets available. All of our Hunting bullets are made in the VLD or Hybrid designs. These designs incorporate a sharp nose and slightly thinner jacket that allows the bullet to penetrate 2” to 3” before it starts to expand. After the bullet starts to expand it will shed 40% to 85% of its weight as shrapnel into the surrounding tissue (internal organ). The combination between the shrapnel and the hydrostatic shock produces a massive wound cavity within the vital area (internal organs) that will be 13” to 15” long. This massive wound cavity results in the animal dropping fast since most go into shock after such a tremendous blow. Those animals that don’t go down immediately will soon succumb to blood pressure loss and/or organ failure producing a quick ethical kill. Our bullets don’t poke through like an arrow (high weight retention, deep penetration bullets) but instead dump their energy where it is most effective, inside the animal. Using the Berger VLD will result in an animal that goes down fast so you can enjoy the results of your hunt without having to track the wounded animal after the shot. You owe it to yourself to see how accurate and deadly the Berger Hunting VLD will be on your next hunt. To order a free 30 minute video that provides more detail on the bullets, cartridge and velocity used to take several animals at a variety of ranges call 714-441-7200.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.

riude
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Re: Lethality of 300blk

Post by riude » Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:16 am

Thanks for your interest. Whitetail is very marginal game for me, but I guess many ppl in Finland would be interested if 300blk could be loaded "whitetail-legal".
Anyway, I have bolt action, 17" barrel 1:7.5 twist, made from .223 Weatherby vanguard.

Just checked what Quickload shows with VV powders. Does not look good, N110 would be closest, but not usefull.
1680 seems to be much better. As you said.

I guess I must check if I can find some 1680.

At this time, I don´t have any 123gr range bullets, but most of them are available.

Btw, to get around 2000fps, you should have abt. 19gr of N120. By Quickload that means 21% compression.

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plant.one
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Re: Lethality of 300blk

Post by plant.one » Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:52 am

riude wrote:
At this time, I don´t have any 123gr range bullets, but most of them are available.

if you can find some hornady 123gr SST/Zmax/VMax .310's those can be resized to .308 with a lee push through sizing die like you'd use for cast bullets.

there are several of us shooting them, and they're quite accurate, even resized. and they're designed to expand at 300 blk velocity's.

i just dont know if you can squeeze enough out of them - you'd need to be at 2425 fps to get 1257 ft/lbs out of that bullet at 100 yds - but i bet you can get damn close to it. 2240 is totally doable with lil gun in a 16" ar, so you may well be able to get that extra 200 fps with a bolt gun by loading a bit long and carefully upping the charge slowly. i dont recall any pressure signs there at 19 grains of LG loaded at 2.082"

the same ft/lbs applies for the hornady .308 125 SST bullet (which is where i based my load data for the .310 123gr sst from when i was working on it) again if you can get the speed out of them.


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dellet
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Re: Lethality of 300blk

Post by dellet » Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:59 am

riude wrote:Thanks for your interest. Whitetail is very marginal game for me, but I guess many ppl in Finland would be interested if 300blk could be loaded "whitetail-legal".
Anyway, I have bolt action, 17" barrel 1:7.5 twist, made from .223 Weatherby vanguard.

Just checked what Quickload shows with VV powders. Does not look good, N110 would be closest, but not usefull.
1680 seems to be much better. As you said.

I guess I must check if I can find some 1680.

At this time, I don´t have any 123gr range bullets, but most of them are available.

Btw, to get around 2000fps, you should have abt. 19gr of N120. By Quickload that means 21% compression.
Depending on the magazine box on your rifle it might be possible to load the cartridge longer. I loaded that bullet as long as 2.350".

I have loaded that bullet with N120 to 2.255, but I do not remember the maximum velocity, I will look at my notes when I am home tonight.

Vihtavouri lists a max load with a Lapua 155 Scenar 18.4 at 1929 fps. 150 Lockbase 19.6 grains 2010fps. This is with a 14" barrel. N120 works well compressed.

I think it is possible to find a combination that will work for you if you are interested.

In case you have not seen the load data from Vuhtavuori:
http://www.vihtavuori.com/en/reloading- ... ckout.html
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riude
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Re: Lethality of 300blk

Post by riude » Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:56 pm

Did some more Quickload research. Seems 125gr B-tip and H110 would be even easier way to get needed energy.

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dellet
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Re: Lethality of 300blk

Post by dellet » Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:17 pm

riude wrote:Did some more Quickload research. Seems 125gr B-tip and H110 would be even easier way to get needed energy.
If you can get H110, the Hornady 125 SST will be a better choice.

It will likely perform better as a hunting bullet, but the main thing is that it has a flat base.

That will make the velocity needed easier to reach.

With H110 you can probably get a 110 grain bullet to work in a 17" barrel.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.

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