Lethality of 300blk

Moderators: gds, bakerjw, renegade

mrtoyz
New Member
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:10 pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Lethality of 300blk

Post by mrtoyz » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:33 pm

I am curious as to the "lethality" of 300 blk, both sub and super, and specifically which measurables best determine a rounds lethality. Are foot pounds the best measurable to use?

Example:
We've all heard about the penetration of 220gr subs through sandbags, but in the same breathe that these rounds don't function well for hunting because they over penetrate. (per Ballistic AE PNW 220gr SMK's have 477ft-lbs at 100yrds)

Thoughts??

-T
I'll keep my guns and money.....You can keep the "change".

BulletFlight for Android
User avatar
smustian
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 3434
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:55 pm
Location: Central Virginia

Re: Lethality of 300blk

Post by smustian » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:54 pm

The 300 Blk works great as long as you use bullets that will perform at 300 velocities. Most 30 cal bullets on the market are designed for the high velocities of the 308/30.06 and will not work well with the 300. In the last year or two more bullets are coming to market designed for the 300. Check out the Hunting section of the forum and you will find numerous bullets that work well. 110g Vor-Tx, Hornady 125g SST, Nosler 125g BT come to mind but there are others.

Subs are a different animal. Bullet weight equals momentum which drives the bullet through the target. I believe most sub hunters hope for the bullet to tumble and cause damage. Several vendors are currently working on bullets that will expand at sub velocities, some of which look very promising. In your example you state a SMK. SMK bullets were never meant to expand so they would be a poor choice for hunting.

tallburnedmidget
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 3801
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:01 pm

Re: Lethality of 300blk

Post by tallburnedmidget » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:10 pm

mrtoyz wrote:I am curious as to the "lethality" of 300 blk, both sub and super, and specifically which measurables best determine a rounds lethality. Are foot pounds the best measurable to use?

Example:
We've all heard about the penetration of 220gr subs through sandbags, but in the same breathe that these rounds don't function well for hunting because they over penetrate. (per Ballistic AE PNW 220gr SMK's have 477ft-lbs at 100yrds)

Thoughts??

-T

High there and welcome!

"lethality" must be better defined to give you a more precise answer.

I think I have killed every animal I have shot with the 300BLK but one, that makes it lethal to me as I've killed about approximately 20 deer, 2 hogs, and a racoon with various 300BLk loads. Probably more if I really think about it. I have not retrieved 100% of the animals with 1 deer getting away due to an expanding sub shot that was likely stopped by the shoulder blade bone of the deer. The other animal not retrieved was a neck shot on a hog that we just didn't bother tracking as it ran into some nasty stuff we didn't want to crawl through but I feel confident it died within 150yds of where I shot it.

As for a DRT (Dead Right There) shot I think the 300BLK is lacking unless you head shoot or take out the spine. I have yet to see or year or a DRT shot to the lungs/heart via the 300BLk. This doesn't mean the 300BLK lacks the ability to be lethal but it may not be the best DRT caliber you have at your disposal.

Now, plenty have killed with the 300BLK taking double lung/heart shots. In my experience deer run 60-150yds when hit with the 300BLk in the heart/double lung area. They die but they do take off a ways. My new approach is to simply take out both front shoulders as the bullet passes through the lung/heart area. This should reduce the distance they run before passing out and dying.

I don't know if this info helps with what you are thinking regarding "lethality" but in all I think the 300BLK has no problem killing mid sized game animal which I believe would translate to lethal success in a military/defense/law enforcement application on the 2 legged variety of animals.

User avatar
A-Game
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1193
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:05 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Lethality of 300blk

Post by A-Game » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:41 pm

If you figure a .22lr can be lethal with proper shot placement and if you are close enough then it depends if you are talking about hunting or the two legged variety. 300 Blackout was originally developed for the military.

That being the case then penetration is a desirable trait and the question is closer related to "Can you hit it?" What is the furthest distance you can reliably and consistently hit a man sized target and that would be your max lethal range.
I've not shot passed 550ish yards purely because I haven't had the need to shoot further than that.
I have hit water jugs and watermelon at that distance pretty easily.

If you are wanting to know what your max distance to get reliable expansion? Every bullet is different.

If you are Dellet and a few others who venture down a particular rabbit hole than the distance will be much further.
Industry Pro Staff for Dynamic Research Technologies When One Shot is All You Get www.drtammo.com https://www.facebook.com/drtammo/
Join the Revolution http://youtube.com/watch?v=3_Xnx3BFuLk

User avatar
dellet
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 6447
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:25 pm

Re: Lethality of 300blk

Post by dellet » Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:07 pm

A-Game wrote:If you figure a .22lr can be lethal with proper shot placement and if you are close enough then it depends if you are talking about hunting or the two legged variety. 300 Blackout was originally developed for the military.

That being the case then penetration is a desirable trait and the question is closer related to "Can you hit it?" What is the furthest distance you can reliably and consistently hit a man sized target and that would be your max lethal range.
I've not shot passed 550ish yards purely because I haven't had the need to shoot further than that.
I have hit water jugs and watermelon at that distance pretty easily.

If you are wanting to know what your max distance to get reliable expansion? Every bullet is different.

If you are Dellet and a few others who venture down a particular rabbit hole than the distance will be much further.
I take that kind of talk personally 8)

Image
Image

Image

16" micro 7, 50 yards, load development. Two different bullets, 8 clicks apart on a mildot scope.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.

mrtoyz
New Member
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:10 pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Lethality of 300blk

Post by mrtoyz » Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:35 pm

What about thoughts on measurables to gauge a rounds lethality? I'm used to looking a ft-lbs and it makes logical sense that energy on target is the best measurement aside from tumbling and expansion. Am I missing anything?

When I look at the landscape of 300blk and loading bulk quantities I'm drawn, like most, to bullets that can be bought in bulk i.e. 147/150, 168, 175, 208 and 220's. That got me thinking about which would be best for subs and supers in terms of self defense.

-T
I'll keep my guns and money.....You can keep the "change".

User avatar
rebel
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 7243
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:01 pm
Location: Moonshine Country

Re: Lethality of 300blk

Post by rebel » Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:45 am

I am not sure you can just use "measurables" to compute a rounds killing power. It does give you a fair guess though. Me personally, I go lighter and faster with my bullet, frangible, for self defense. The over penetration of non expanding subs rules it out for me. The Lehigh 78 grain QCB is good at homeplace distances, Both Maker and Lehigh make frangible supers in heavier weights that would be a good choice for distance.
You can't beat the mountain, pilgrim. Mountains got its own way.

DoubleJ
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1045
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:51 pm

Re: Lethality of 300blk

Post by DoubleJ » Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:18 am

I shot a pdog in the neck with a Nosler CC 190 sub, it died. My .204 makes a much better pdog rifle, but the 300 did the trick, and quietly.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't 300 ballistics very close to 30-30 ballistics? That old gun has killed millions of things, 2 and 4 legged. Now of course deer are bigger than they used to be, like the size of a Rhino, and only a Weatherby 300 mag can kill one...
I do not reply to posts with horrific grammar errors.

I do not reply to posts concerning the case mouth dent.

User avatar
dellet
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 6447
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:25 pm

Re: Lethality of 300blk

Post by dellet » Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:13 am

DoubleJ wrote:I shot a pdog in the neck with a Nosler CC 190 sub, it died. My .204 makes a much better pdog rifle, but the 300 did the trick, and quietly.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't 300 ballistics very close to 30-30 ballistics? That old gun has killed millions of things, 2 and 4 legged. Now of course deer are bigger than they used to be, like the size of a Rhino, and only a Weatherby 300 mag can kill one...
You forgot to mention that you can only use the 300 Mag from tree stand distance. :shock:

Ballistically the 30-30 is superior, but with the bullet choices now available the 300 Blackout probably would have a better "lethality factor", unless neither one was a tube fed rifle, then it would be back to the 30-30.

I have never seen a bullet, cartridge, rifle or pistol that was lethal. If that was the case, we would need common sense gun control laws.

When the 30-30 was new, and probably until after WWII, the reason it was so lethal, was not because of the cartridge, but the man who shot it. Pre-war, a hunter who put meat on the table was more likely to own, a centerfire rifle, a rimfire and a shot gun, possibly a pistol. If you were hunting deer and all you saw was a rabbit, you shot it in the head to save the meat. If you were hunting rabbit and all you saw was a deer, you shot it in the ear, because that was about the only place you could kill and recover it. The platform did not matter as much as the skill level of the hunter.

Know your platform, know your ability, know your area and know your prey.

If you are just now making a decision on what rifle and cartridge combination you will be using this year, sit it out. You're not ready for the season now, and you won't be by the end.

As for the original question of the OP, the answer is "it depends".

Do you want to just kill something, or do you want to be able to eat it after you shoot it?

The answer to that question will most likely change the answer to your question.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.

tikkablk
Senior Silent Operator
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:14 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Lethality of 300blk

Post by tikkablk » Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:06 pm

mrtoyz wrote:I am curious as to the "lethality" of 300 blk, both sub and super, and specifically which measurables best determine a rounds lethality. Are foot pounds the best measurable to use?

Example:
We've all heard about the penetration of 220gr subs through sandbags, but in the same breathe that these rounds don't function well for hunting because they over penetrate. (per Ballistic AE PNW 220gr SMK's have 477ft-lbs at 100yrds)

Thoughts??

-T
"lethality of the 300 BLK" I would call it a shot that is as quickly as possible death within that calibre/ projectiles parameters.
In saying in the right hands and situation it is lethal, that shot placement is key along with the right projectile for the job.

I have shot near 60 deer and many more pigs and hundreds of goats with it and mainly with subs head/neck shots 80% of the time. I would not let some of my friends use my 300BLK as there shooting ability is not that good and would result in tracking a wounded deer a long way, so I let them stick too there 7mm rem mag, WSM and 30-06 as they need more trauma and lb energy to do the same with a well placed bullet.

It does take a bit of skill hunting with subs as there is a bit more going on e.g. range, uphill/down angles, and the weather conditions temp, borometric pressure could all cost you a wounded animal.

Post Reply