Okay, first of all I know this has been talked about probably to death. No pun intended. With the new bullets and loaded ammo coming out I just wanted to check again. I saw that the last thread on this subject Robert said the Remington Accutip was the go to HD bullet. With the anticipation of the new Barnes 110 black tip, it seemed like people where ready for this to be the HD round.
I just got my 16" barrel and after the Form 1 clears will have a 9" barrel. 20-24" of penetration at 300 yards seems a bit much for HD with the black tips. At room distance either of those will pass through a bad guy and have tons of energy left over. Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement. I know. Hits or misses seem like either will still pose a serious threat.
Any rifle caliber bullet fired at a velocity that will stop an attack has over penetration issues. I get that. The reason for a rifle caliber instead of a pistol caliber for HD is because a smaller faster bullet will dump it's energy on impact better than a slow heavy bullet from a pistol, generally and relatively. Not looking for a what about this rifle caliber vs. this pistol caliber debate. The .223 with TAP ammo is what a lot of police units use. In the 55 or 60 grain flavor. Do these do a better job of dumping energy on impact with less overpenetration and retained energy? I'm still on board with the 300 BLK just trying to figure out an HD round.
I'm just trying to learn here so help me out. The 110 black tip seems like too much for HD.
Home defense ammo
Moderators: gds, bakerjw, renegade
Re: Home defense ammo
Penetration is a funny thing, its a function of velocity, but also of bullet design and resulting expansion. The slower a hollow point moves (such as at 300yds), the less energy it has to expand and slow it further, while at higher velocities (muzzle, or HD distances), it can expand fully and dump its energy much faster, which might result in similar or even less penetration depth. Along with this you have bullet yaw (from the expanding bullet no longer being balanced along its axis), which makes the bullets path change inside a target, which is more common in living tissue, as its not one consistent density like ballistic gel.
Other things to consider are that this test is on bare gel, and part of your penetration energy is going to be lost in clothing, such as in winter, when heavy coats and layers of clothes can stop light rounds with low penetration. You also have hard bone in a live target that the bullet might hit, which will eat up a good portion of the energy. On top of all this is that most shots will not be on a perfectly square targets, and the majority of shots are made against targets that are angled toward/away from your bullet's path, often putting an arm (more clothes, bone, tissue) and the air gap between arm and body in the bullets path. These are all why the FBI requirement for handgun rounds is a minimum of 12" in gel.
Honestly I would like to see a muzzle distance ballistic gel test on the black tip, and I'm sure Rob can probably get a nice picture of one to us eventually.
Just like for carry handguns, use the ammo you feel comfortable with and can afford to shoot, the Accutip is a great load and it will definitely do the job.
Other things to consider are that this test is on bare gel, and part of your penetration energy is going to be lost in clothing, such as in winter, when heavy coats and layers of clothes can stop light rounds with low penetration. You also have hard bone in a live target that the bullet might hit, which will eat up a good portion of the energy. On top of all this is that most shots will not be on a perfectly square targets, and the majority of shots are made against targets that are angled toward/away from your bullet's path, often putting an arm (more clothes, bone, tissue) and the air gap between arm and body in the bullets path. These are all why the FBI requirement for handgun rounds is a minimum of 12" in gel.
Honestly I would like to see a muzzle distance ballistic gel test on the black tip, and I'm sure Rob can probably get a nice picture of one to us eventually.
Just like for carry handguns, use the ammo you feel comfortable with and can afford to shoot, the Accutip is a great load and it will definitely do the job.
-Exterminatus-
Re: Home defense ammo
The AccutTip will have less penetration while still having enough - which is a feature for home defense.
Re: Home defense ammo
So Remington Accutip for HD and the Corbon 110 vortx for zombies and hunting? What about the Corbon 125 BT for HD? I don't know how I didn't come to the same conclusion about the velocity difference at 300 yards.
Just so this doesn't get asked later by me or someone else, what weight, velocity and construction is ideal in your mind for the 300 BLK? Some sort of expanding 125 grain at just over 2100 fps at the muzzle? As this caliber catches on, more and more bullets will be developed and it would be nice to have a referance. Just like different grains of TAP ammo are used for different applications, I'm looking for good general ideas. I'm sure the best would be to get some gel and clothing to test myself but I don't see that happening.
Thanks.
Just so this doesn't get asked later by me or someone else, what weight, velocity and construction is ideal in your mind for the 300 BLK? Some sort of expanding 125 grain at just over 2100 fps at the muzzle? As this caliber catches on, more and more bullets will be developed and it would be nice to have a referance. Just like different grains of TAP ammo are used for different applications, I'm looking for good general ideas. I'm sure the best would be to get some gel and clothing to test myself but I don't see that happening.
Thanks.
Re: Home defense ammo
The BLK will do the best with bullets in the 110 gr - 130 gr range. It will be interesting to see what 2 years of future development will bring us. Powders optimized for it along with gen 2 HD/hunting bullets. We are in the infancy stages.
We have yet to see the Hornady or Nosler entries yet. Both companies make some of my favorite bullets for soft targets, and let's not forget Speer's TNT line of affordable bullets as well. As the BLK gains popularity more bullets will be made to fit its longer ogive shape.
We will have bullets similar to V-Max, Partition, TNT, and Ballistic Tip bullets all designed to perform at the lower FPS of the BLK over their current design which supports about 500 to almost 1000 fps more in MV. Many have a speed limit of around 3400 fps, and are made for MV of about 3000 fps where the BLK is about 2300-2400 fps at the muzzle.
The designs need to open easily yet stay together for penetration except the varmint bullets. A Partition bullet is a good way to achieve both, as is the all copper Barnes black tip with it's pre scored/cut tip with a polymer wedge point and solid base.
The Nosler Ballistic Tip just needs a thinner lighter jacket at the first 1/3 of the bullet, while keeping the thick heavy base. It's just a matter of altering the current designs a little to adjust for the slower speed of the BLK. All in good time.
We have yet to see the Hornady or Nosler entries yet. Both companies make some of my favorite bullets for soft targets, and let's not forget Speer's TNT line of affordable bullets as well. As the BLK gains popularity more bullets will be made to fit its longer ogive shape.
We will have bullets similar to V-Max, Partition, TNT, and Ballistic Tip bullets all designed to perform at the lower FPS of the BLK over their current design which supports about 500 to almost 1000 fps more in MV. Many have a speed limit of around 3400 fps, and are made for MV of about 3000 fps where the BLK is about 2300-2400 fps at the muzzle.
The designs need to open easily yet stay together for penetration except the varmint bullets. A Partition bullet is a good way to achieve both, as is the all copper Barnes black tip with it's pre scored/cut tip with a polymer wedge point and solid base.
The Nosler Ballistic Tip just needs a thinner lighter jacket at the first 1/3 of the bullet, while keeping the thick heavy base. It's just a matter of altering the current designs a little to adjust for the slower speed of the BLK. All in good time.
Long distance, the next best thing to being there!
Re: Home defense ammo
Thanks for the help. Now if I can just find some accutips.
Re: Home defense ammo
The 300 BLK Accutip is custom - you will never find them. If you do, they are the wrong kind.
Re: Home defense ammo
I misspoke. I meant I wish I could find some loaded Remington Accutip ammo in stock. I only checked a few places so far though.
Re: Home defense ammo
AccuTip is in stock at the warehouse. Dealers can order it form AAC or Remington.
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