Subsonic desintegrating bullets

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russak47
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Subsonic desintegrating bullets

Post by russak47 » Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:59 am

Hello folks,

my name ist Michi and im from germany.
This week I ordered a Ruger American Ranch in 300 Blackout with a 1:7" twist and a 16" barrel.
While waiting for the gun, im looking for some ammo or bullets.

The field of application for this gun is hunting for crows, pigeons, geese und foxes near villages. Thats why it should be silent as possible.
A welcome feature of the bullets would be, if the bullet desintegrates as fast as possible on impact. As result, people walking nearby would
not be in danger. I thougt of something like Varmint bullets, but I dont know if there are any, that are "soft" enough.

The only subsonic ammo I can get in germany are S&B FMJ and Hornady Sub-X 190 grs.

does anyone have a suggestion for the bullets? If I cant find a dealer for possible bullets in germany, doas anyone know if export from the us
is possible?

Greeting from germany

PS: please excuse my bad english

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Dr.Phil
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Re: Subsonic desintegrating bullets

Post by Dr.Phil » Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:22 am

Welcome and don't be too concerned about your English.

I'm assuming you are looking for something that is either frangible or has a thin jacket with rapid expansion.
Unfortunately, subsonic projectiles in 300 BLK are 180 grains & heavier.
This inherently lends itself to weight retention and is counter to what you are looking for.

A few years ago I did a study on the DRT 180 grain frangible 30 cal projectiles in a subsonic 300 BLK.
They would "disintegrate" on impact with something hard and only left a thick copper jacket behind.
Unfortunately the accuracy of these were poor and tests on ballistic gel did not result in any actuation of the projectile.
(It behaved like a solid projectile in gel.)
User Twang n' Bang posted these tests on his YouTube channel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6vL1VqVOI0

My recommendation would be to look into the offerings by Lehigh Defense to see if any of their products meet your needs.
https://www.lehighdefense.com/all?ajaxf ... ut-whisper
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BJK
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Re: Subsonic desintegrating bullets

Post by BJK » Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:38 am

Your English is fine. Much better than my German. Welcome to the forum Michi!

You know that what you're looking for might be tough to find. At one time there was a Glaser Safety Slug made but I don't know if they still are and I don't know if they were made in .30.

Frangible bullets are made that are intended to break apart and not riccochet, but I don't know if that will do what you want. Here's the first link that came up in a 'net search. Can they be expeorted? Ask the folks making them. They'd know.
https://www.ballisticproducts.com/CTX-F ... ducts/732/

If they won't work you might be forced to make your own. I doubt the gear to do so would be terribly expensive but it would be an investment. You'd need a strong press and I think a RCBS Rockchucker would do the job. You'd need bullet jackets, and for lead I would use the smallest lead shot you could find. They can be swaged into the jacket and while taking the right shape they won't fuse together but remain separate. On impact you have however many pieces of shot you started with. Can any of that be exported? That I don't know. Everything I buy today seems to have a prohibition against export, but frankly I don't know.
At the link is the largest source I know of for bullet swaging. I'd check with them if no other solution shows itself. If anyone can help they would be able to.
http://www.corbins.com/bullets.htm

This might not be what you want to hear since you already have a rifle coming in, but the other way to go is with high velocity. A (for instance) .17 Remington pushing a 20-25 grain bullet @ 4000fps destroys what it hits, and the bullet is also totally destroyed in the process, it turns into lead sand. A blade of grass does the same thing to it. It has a trajectory almost laser like out to 200 yards and would be usable on everything you mentioned.

Now I'll let others with other knowledge help you. I wish you luck in your search. I'm curious about this too since subsonic and what I think you're looking for don't typically go together.

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dellet
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Re: Subsonic desintegrating bullets

Post by dellet » Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:24 am

110 grain expanding bullet, will not disintegrate.
https://makerbullets.com/proddetail.php?prod=308110SBLK

Barnes makes frangible bullets, but I do not know the minimum velocity needed.
https://www.barnesbullets.com/bullets/tac-rrlp/

I would consider trying the 108 grain 310 bullet.

Barnes makes a 90 grain frangible but they will not sell the bullet alone as far as I know and again do not know the minimum velocity needed even if you could.
https://www.barnesbullets.com/ammunition/range-ar/

I would also look at air gun pellets. You can down load the Ruger ammunition to 600 fps.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.

russak47
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Re: Subsonic desintegrating bullets

Post by russak47 » Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:09 pm

Thanks for all the insightfull answers.

@Dr.Phil
Why are the subsonic projectiles so heavy?

The Lehigh Defense bullets are known to me. They will open up very well, but stay in one piece and might ricochet.

@BJK
Frangible Bullet is a good keyword. I couldnt find any bullets to buy in europe.
Swaging my own bullets is very interrsting, but might be also very expensive until I create one that works well.

I know Calibers like .17 Remington, .17 Hornet, .204 Ruger and they are great. The disadvantage is, that they ere loud even with a surpressor.

@dellet
The maker bullet lokks similar to that of lehigh defense.

On the Barnes website I found the MPG and the TAC-RRLP. They sound great, but I dont know if they open up at this slow
velocities.


After hours of searchin I fount something promising. The RUAG Swiss P Final Subsonic ammo. The are made specially made for 300 Whisper/.308 subsonic and will desintegrate on impact. The price is disappointing at aprox € 4,00 per shot. As far as I know it is not possible to buy the bullets only.

One possibility is to modify exiting bullets. Maybe drill a deeper and bigger hollowpoint. Possible candidates are:
-Barnes MPG and TAC-RRLP
-Hornady V-Max
-Speer TNT
-Sierra Varmint
-Nosler Varmageddon
-Berrys plattet bullets

Has anyone experience with drilling hollowpoints? How deep is it possible to drill? I am afraid, that the bullet will "blow thru".

Greet Michi

BJK
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Re: Subsonic desintegrating bullets

Post by BJK » Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:16 pm

300BLK projectiles are so heavy to give the required "cork" so that we can build pressure behind it to get our AR15s to function. But with a bolt gun you don't have that consideration and can make subsonic ammo with light bullets.

Decades ago I made a subsonic 5.56/.223 using a Sierra 80 grain bullet using a very fast double base powder considered totally unsuitable for the cartridge. You'll probably find many loads like that on the 'net. None of them will be from companies with R&D behind them, but loads that someone like myself worked up. My load wouldn't work for you and I would never divulge it because it was developed for .223 with much higher case volume than what's found in the 300BLK. Initial pressure might be a problem. But you can figure out your own load.

Thinking about it more you might even consider using a nylon sabot and a highly explosive varmint .22 bullet riding inside it, or as has been already suggested, a .22 pellet. I've used these sabots in the past but not subsonically. My goal was to get as high a velocity as I could out of a .308 handgun. I got up to 3600fps using powder considered much too fast for .308 Win use but that was required. I achieved 3" groups at 100 yards and was told by the manufacturer that was pretty much all that I could expect. I gave up because to me that's just not good enough. Maybe with a pellet something like that would work for you. Subsonic of course. They might not self destruct but they'd slow down real fast. But they also might explode from the spin. The link has the company where I purchased mine.

http://www.jdcomponents.com/Products/products.html

Sig220
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Re: Subsonic desintegrating bullets

Post by Sig220 » Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:25 pm

This link is to 110gr "Sinterfire" projectiles. When striking some type of object they desintergrate into dust I guess.

https://americanreloading.com/en/30-cal ... 250ct.html

Anyway, they are a lightweight but in a bolt you could get the velocity down.....would slowing them down prevent their destruction when striking a object? I don't know........I have never loaded them nor fired one. Wish you the best in your search!

BJK
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Re: Subsonic desintegrating bullets

Post by BJK » Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:41 pm

It sounds as though these might be what you're wanting.

https://www.lehighdefense.com/all?ajaxf ... ut-whisper

Nimrod
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Re: Subsonic desintegrating bullets

Post by Nimrod » Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:07 pm

Have a look at the Hornady 90gr XTP bullet - using Trail Boss or Tin Star (N32C) they can be loaded subsonic in a 300BLK bolt gun.

Reasonable accuracy in my RARR but single feed only due to the short COAL and bullet profile.

The Hornady 190gr Sub-X will work fine on foxes, dachs and pigs.
Here’s the result of my home loads at 100m when sighting in a Thermion XQ50 scope - 3 rounds and then the fourth after adjustment: https://flic.kr/p/2jqMtii

I’ve contracted for urban and peri-urban control work in the past and I have to say that if a ‘disintegrating’ bullet is required to mitigate danger to people nearby, then the problem is being considered from the wrong safety perspective. YMMV of course.

For most of the quarry mentioned a thermal spotter and NV or thermal scope on a smaller calibre - even the lowly .22 subsonic -during the hours of darkness would yield results (if local regulations allow such use).
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popper
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Re: Subsonic desintegrating bullets

Post by popper » Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:11 pm

Try hornady 100 gr half jacket and 4-5 gr fast pistol powder. Or any 30 cal 100gr PB lead. Anything lighter will seat too short. Hot melt glue bullets are generally accurate to 25m but will do damage. ~150gr mould and large glue gun. Oil the mould first, fill, wait until hard. Shake cast with a few drops ATF and load. Case neck needs flare to prevent shaving. About a 50gr glubit with 2-3gr pistol powder.

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