Home Defense Sub-Sonic Ammo

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GunFunZS
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Re: Home Defense Sub-Sonic Ammo

Post by GunFunZS » Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:39 pm

dellet wrote:
LeoC4 wrote:
plant.one wrote:if you want a 45 acp energy/terminal balistics with a fancy bullet, get a 45 acp and load it up with a fancy bullet and use that.
My OP explained that I'm shifting to the 300 Blk AR Pistol since I can mount a laser/light and run a 30 rnd magazine. With my 1911, I'd have juggle a separate light and carry an extra 1911 magazine (or two)...difficult in the middle of the night in PJs (or less).

Funniest thing with arguments like this is, that people are trying to pick a side when the cold hard truth is you don't need to. You can have both.

If you have an AR in 300 Blackout and can't load it with 30 random rounds, both sub and super, then do a mag dump and keep all 30 rounds in a 10" circle at 40 feet without a feeding failure, there's something wrong with you, the AR, or both.

If you have an intruder bad ass enough that he advances into gun fire coming from a highly defensible position, you have more problems than choosing sub or super.
Agreed. The oddity to me is that there are so many people who demand nothing less than battle rifle power for their urban home, and say even intermediate power rifle rounds or shotguns are insufficient, but then also brag about the virtues of their magnum pistol, or 1911.

Let's face it, a 'pistol' format AR in 300 BO, blows all the magnums out of the water with SS, and with carefully chosen SS or subs, you can have a large quantity of easily aimed rounds on tap, that are very adequate to the task of stopping a threat inside a house without providing excessive threat to neighbors, or kids in unknown parts of the house. All in a compact package which really does limit disorienting concussion, and lifetime hearing loss. There's no perfect solution, but this really ain't a bad one. Just about any of the good subsonic 300 BO offerings are substantial gains in terms of terminal ballistics over any practical defensive pistol round, and your hit probability for a vital is multiplied by lets say 10... That part shouldn't be ignored.

You can pick something suitable to probable threat scenarios in either SS or Sub flavor, without compromising too much for even the improbable scenarios. If somehow I am attacked by a person at 200 yards who is both a real threat to me, and who fails to instantly kill me, I have pretty much as good a chance of getting him first with subs as I would an AR in 556. In a closed house at ranges more like 20' I think I would prefer the compact gun with less blast.

You aren't wrong to choose differently, but let's not pretend that's a wrong choice either.

FWIW, my preferred choice is 22 pellets of #4 buck at about 1400 FPS, in a wad that gives a tight pattern, out of a reliable box fed shotgun. an AR with varmint bullets, or a 300 BO with whatever limits over penetration are both good next best things that I have on hand too.

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Re: Home Defense Sub-Sonic Ammo

Post by Dolomite_Supafly » Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:19 pm

If you want to limit over penetration you have chosen the wrong caliber. A 5.56 loaded with lightweight varmint rounds will not penetrate as much as ANY 300 Blackout round, super or sub. It will be magnitudes better than a subsonic 300 Blackout which is a proven over pentrator unless you are shooting lightweight bullets at super slow velocities.

To limit over penetration you need to have the velocity high enough to rip the bullet apart or you have to load the bullet to paintball velocities which compromises reliability. Anywhere in between and penetration will be excessive.

In a life or death shooting you will not hear the shot or feel the recoil. That has been proven time and time again.
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Re: Home Defense Sub-Sonic Ammo

Post by Sharkbite » Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:28 pm

In a life or death shooting you will not hear the shot
Suppress the beast. 223 is HORRIBLE indoors w/o earpro. Shorten the barrel (10”) and its like being flash-banged. I know from personal experience on both counts.

I like my 300blk as a SD/HD rifle because i can run a short barrel and add a suppressor in a pkg that is slightly shorter overall then a 16” barreled 223. With the 110gn vmax i get a hard hitting rifle round (not a handicapped 223 (out of a short barrel).

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Re: Home Defense Sub-Sonic Ammo

Post by LeoC4 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:34 pm

Sharkbite wrote:
...I like my 300blk as a SD/HD rifle because i can run a short barrel and add a suppressor...
The ability to suppress a sub-sonic round is what sold me on 300Blk for HD. Over-penetration isn't a concern of mine in fact, if the bad guy is behind a door/wall, I want penetration. My original request for information was for sub-sonic personal defense ammo that is designed to expand and a few have provided suggestions.

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Re: Home Defense Sub-Sonic Ammo

Post by rebel » Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:22 pm

Go your own way brother. Sub 300 may stop a threat or maybe he has to to bleed out. Depends on your aim, middle of the night, sleepy eyed and buck naked. Robert tends to hate me saying this but # 4 buck in a properly choked shotgun will put them down every time. Get the mop out , it's gonna be messy.
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Re: Home Defense Sub-Sonic Ammo

Post by SwampDog_13 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:29 pm

rebel wrote:Go your own way brother. Sub 300 may stop a threat or maybe he has to to bleed out. Depends on your aim, middle of the night, sleepy eyed and buck naked. Robert tends to hate me saying this but # 4 buck in a properly choked shotgun will put them down every time. Get the mop out , it's gonna be messy.

Quotes like this right here makes me wish we could like them. I know it's what rests beside my bed at night.

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Re: Home Defense Sub-Sonic Ammo

Post by TRshootem » Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:02 pm

I love my BLK pistol, but over penetration is my major concern in a home defense shoot. The shotty and #4's will be much more effective. And, let's not forget the chack chack as a warning to the miscreant to GTFO so's I don't ruin my new oak flooring. Messy does not describe the aftermath! I have been to crime scenes where such a mess is enough to make one fervently pray it never comes to that. My bride would never want to set foot again in our home after a bad guy down deal.

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Re: Home Defense Sub-Sonic Ammo

Post by Sharkbite » Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:08 pm

LeoC4 wrote:
Sharkbite wrote:
...I like my 300blk as a SD/HD rifle because i can run a short barrel and add a suppressor...
The ability to suppress a sub-sonic round is what sold me on 300Blk for HD. Over-penetration isn't a concern of mine in fact, if the bad guy is behind a door/wall, I want penetration. My original request for information was for sub-sonic personal defense ammo that is designed to expand and a few have provided suggestions.

While i am all for guys picking what they like...i will NOT use subs as a HD load. Suppressed SUPERS are my preferred loading.

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Re: Home Defense Sub-Sonic Ammo

Post by Dolomite_Supafly » Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:27 am

rebel wrote:Go your own way brother. Sub 300 may stop a threat or maybe he has to to bleed out. Depends on your aim, middle of the night, sleepy eyed and buck naked. Robert tends to hate me saying this but # 4 buck in a properly choked shotgun will put them down every time. Get the mop out , it's gonna be messy.
For a VERY long time I used this exact setup, high brass #4 shot. It would be far more effective than anything mentioned in this thread.
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Re: Home Defense Sub-Sonic Ammo

Post by LeoC4 » Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:43 pm

Before selecting the 300Blk AR pistol, I considered a KSG (https://www.keltecweapons.com/shotguns/ksg/), UTS-15 shotgun (http://www.utas-usa.com/pumpactionshotgun) and similar high-cap 12ga equipment. Besides destroying what's left of my hearing, there were scenarios I envisioned where 15 rounds wouldn't be sufficient. 30 rounds + a spare mag of 30 should be enough if my home is invaded from 3 interior directions simultaneously. I'm able to cover all 3 from a single hard cover location.

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