Home Defense Sub-Sonic Ammo

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LeoC4
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Re: Home Defense Sub-Sonic Ammo

Post by LeoC4 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:16 pm

While the 220g is a sub-sonic round, it's a range round (Sierra HTBP Match King) intended for accuracy. I'm looking for 300 Blk sub-sonic Self-Defense / Home Defense rounds specially designed to expand at sub-sonic speeds (e.g. Hornady 190g Sub-X, Lehigh Defense 194 Max Expansion and Maker 190g Expanding).

Thanks to those who suggested the Lehigh Defense and Maker rounds.

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rebel
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Re: Home Defense Sub-Sonic Ammo

Post by rebel » Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:13 pm

I agree, you are in the ideal situation to use sub ammo ( and throw everything you know about ballistics - BC, drops and yes penetration - out the window with subs ) with only 2 in the house and obviously rural or in a secluded community, why limit yourself to lower energy. If someone enters my home, I want to put them down - right now. A supersonic, even from a short barrel will do that much more effectively than subs, which kill by blood loss ( unless a lucky CNS hit ). I figure I need all the help I can get. In any case, you asked for thoughts, I gave you mine.
I encourage you to do some testing and decide, not rely on my or anyone else's opinion.
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Re: Home Defense Sub-Sonic Ammo

Post by SwampDog_13 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:47 am

LeoC4 wrote:
rebel wrote:...Makers with their tougher petals or maybe the fracturing variety
Thanks. I didn't know of them as a source. They don't provide recommended loading info on their website...something to track down.
This site probably is the largest single point for maker bullet data. Paul, the owner and also a member, is also very responsive to his customers and typically will supply starting load data as well.

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Re: Home Defense Sub-Sonic Ammo

Post by Dolomite_Supafly » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:57 am

Double the bullet weight and you double the energy. Double the velocity and you get 4x the energy. Velocity is king when it comes to killing. Subsonic loads generally kill through blood loss, which takes time. Supersonic loads create a basketball sized shockwave that travels through all the surrounding tissues. It is that shockwave that incapacitates instantly.

Go watch some gel tests of some subsonic loads then look at supersonic loads. It will change your mind.
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Re: Home Defense Sub-Sonic Ammo

Post by GunFunZS » Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:33 pm

LeoC4 wrote:
While the 220g is a sub-sonic round, it's a range round (Sierra HTBP Match King) intended for accuracy. I'm looking for 300 Blk sub-sonic Self-Defense / Home Defense rounds specially designed to expand at sub-sonic speeds (e.g. Hornady 190g Sub-X, Lehigh Defense 194 Max Expansion and Maker 190g Expanding).

Thanks to those who suggested the Lehigh Defense and Maker rounds.
I suggested the Lehigh.

I put in the SMK220 as a control for comparison. If you want to see what icepick looks like, you look at the NOE 147, SMK 220 is tumbly, but too late, The max expansion does about perfect for what you would want, in every category except price.

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Re: Home Defense Sub-Sonic Ammo

Post by plant.one » Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:12 pm

Dolomite_Supafly wrote:Double the bullet weight and you double the energy. Double the velocity and you get 4x the energy. Velocity is king when it comes to killing. Subsonic loads generally kill through blood loss, which takes time. Supersonic loads create a basketball sized shockwave that travels through all the surrounding tissues. It is that shockwave that incapacitates instantly.

Go watch some gel tests of some subsonic loads then look at supersonic loads. It will change your mind.

so much this.

if you've gotta shoot someone in a self defense situation you want to do the most "shock and awe" as possible... you're not trying to wound your attacker or scare them off. dead men tell no lies in court. take advantage of a good quality supersonic load and get the most out of the platform to protect you and your family. otherwise why bother with a rifle cartridge in a pistol platform.


if you want a 45 acp energy/terminal balistics with a fancy bullet, get a 45 acp and load it up with a fancy bullet and use that.

if the arguement is capacity they make stupid looking drums for that :mrgreen:

just my thoughts.
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Re: Home Defense Sub-Sonic Ammo

Post by LeoC4 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:23 pm

plant.one wrote:if you want a 45 acp energy/terminal balistics with a fancy bullet, get a 45 acp and load it up with a fancy bullet and use that.
My OP explained that I'm shifting to the 300 Blk AR Pistol since I can mount a laser/light and run a 30 rnd magazine. With my 1911, I'd have juggle a separate light and carry an extra 1911 magazine (or two)...difficult in the middle of the night in PJs (or less).

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Re: Home Defense Sub-Sonic Ammo

Post by dellet » Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:45 pm

LeoC4 wrote:
plant.one wrote:if you want a 45 acp energy/terminal balistics with a fancy bullet, get a 45 acp and load it up with a fancy bullet and use that.
My OP explained that I'm shifting to the 300 Blk AR Pistol since I can mount a laser/light and run a 30 rnd magazine. With my 1911, I'd have juggle a separate light and carry an extra 1911 magazine (or two)...difficult in the middle of the night in PJs (or less).

Funniest thing with arguments like this is, that people are trying to pick a side when the cold hard truth is you don't need to. You can have both.

If you have an AR in 300 Blackout and can't load it with 30 random rounds, both sub and super, then do a mag dump and keep all 30 rounds in a 10" circle at 40 feet without a feeding failure, there's something wrong with you, the AR, or both.

If you have an intruder bad ass enough that he advances into gun fire coming from a highly defensible position, you have more problems than choosing sub or super.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.

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plant.one
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Re: Home Defense Sub-Sonic Ammo

Post by plant.one » Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:18 pm

LeoC4 wrote:
plant.one wrote:if you want a 45 acp energy/terminal balistics with a fancy bullet, get a 45 acp and load it up with a fancy bullet and use that.
My OP explained that I'm shifting to the 300 Blk AR Pistol since I can mount a laser/light and run a 30 rnd magazine. With my 1911, I'd have juggle a separate light and carry an extra 1911 magazine (or two)...difficult in the middle of the night in PJs (or less).

https://www.envirosafetyproducts.com/st ... 69279.html

https://www.centerfiresystems.com/p-164 ... -drum.aspx

https://gunmagwarehouse.com/kci-1911-45 ... azine.html

now mind you - i appreciate that those mag choices may not be the most practical, but there are options out there for you to do with a 1911 that you stated you couldnt. especially when it comes to juggling the laser/light .



I read your OP, and i was just agreeing with dolomite that if you're gonna use a blk for home defense - why not give yourself *every* advantage you can. it *is* a superior platform in several ways, but you're asking how to handicap it, not take advantage of its full potential.

there are several loads that are supersonic that are more than suitable for home defense that will do WAY more damage to a bad guy - and therefore add to the stopping power of the platform - than basically *ANY* subsonic offering can offer.



as mentioned - go on youtube and look at the gel results from the various loads, but here some muzzle energy data for the 194 ME from lehigh vs their 78gr close quarters and the 110 varmageddon. i selected these three because they're easy to have data for since its published on the interwebs. the 110 hornady vmax is going to be very close to the varmageddon.



Image

3.1x the energy of the 194 ME
Image

2.65x the energy of the 194 ME
Image


all that equates to stopping power. which translates into protecting your family better should the need arise.

again just my $0.02 to the situation.
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plant.one
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Re: Home Defense Sub-Sonic Ammo

Post by plant.one » Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:22 pm

Reloading info shared is based on experiences w/ my guns. Be safe and work up your loads from published data. Web data may not be accurate/safe.
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