advantages of 300 blk over 308

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HotGuns
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Re: advantages of 300 blk over 308

Post by HotGuns » Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:06 am

Well...the 300 Blackout used to be an advantage over the .308 but that's not the case anymore.

I've been making some drop in 1/8 twist barrels for both the Savage and Remington 700.

What that does is allow the heavier 220 grain bullets to be stabilized at subsonic speeds. Using 9-10 grains of Trail Boss allows you to shoot suppressed very quietly. It gives you the quiet capability of a close in shot. Most people are using them for hunting pigs.
In the woods, they are liable to see several. They can usually shoot 2 or 3 if they are shooting from a stand.
If they are walking about and come up to a field where there are pigs a couple of hundred yards away, you simply put in a supersonic round and fire.

The barrels are 16.5 inches long and threaded for any .30 can, threads being 5/8-24.

The barrel is a medium varmint size so that a can on it will be more stable and not whip around so much.

Of the few dozen that I made, every shooter has been very happy with them. The Savage is threaded for 20 TPI whereas the Remington is 16 TPI. Both require the lock nut. The one that comes on the Savage can be used, but the Remington lock nut can be ordered.

This barrel uses the best of both worlds in the .308 caliber and its very accurate out to longer ranges. It is as quiet as the Blackout, but it is superior to it at longer ranges.
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Re: advantages of 300 blk over 308

Post by jwb47 » Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:34 pm

HotGuns wrote:Well...the 300 Blackout used to be an advantage over the .308 but that's not the case anymore.

I've been making some drop in 1/8 twist barrels for both the Savage and Remington 700.

What that does is allow the heavier 220 grain bullets to be stabilized at subsonic speeds. Using 9-10 grains of Trail Boss allows you to shoot suppressed very quietly. It gives you the quiet capability of a close in shot. Most people are using them for hunting pigs.
In the woods, they are liable to see several. They can usually shoot 2 or 3 if they are shooting from a stand.
If they are walking about and come up to a field where there are pigs a couple of hundred yards away, you simply put in a supersonic round and fire.

The barrels are 16.5 inches long and threaded for any .30 can, threads being 5/8-24.

The barrel is a medium varmint size so that a can on it will be more stable and not whip around so much.

Of the few dozen that I made, every shooter has been very happy with them. The Savage is threaded for 20 TPI whereas the Remington is 16 TPI. Both require the lock nut. The one that comes on the Savage can be used, but the Remington lock nut can be ordered.

This barrel uses the best of both worlds in the .308 caliber and its very accurate out to longer ranges. It is as quiet as the Blackout, but it is superior to it at longer ranges.
not being a jerk but how do you just simply drop in a super sonic round and fire expecting to hit a target a couple of hundred yards away with a rifle zeroed for sub- sonic rounds ?.

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Re: advantages of 300 blk over 308

Post by HotGuns » Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:35 am

It is assumed that one would be smart enough to have figured out both subsonic and supersonic zero's before attempting such a thing.

However,since common sense has been outlawed in public schools where being mediocre is the standard and everyone gets a trophy for just showing up, perhaps that question is no longer as silly as it used to be.
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Re: advantages of 300 blk over 308

Post by TMD » Sat Apr 16, 2016 4:24 am

HotGuns wrote:Well...the 300 Blackout used to be an advantage over the .308 but that's not the case anymore.

I've been making some drop in 1/8 twist barrels for both the Savage and Remington 700.

What that does is allow the heavier 220 grain bullets to be stabilized at subsonic speeds. Using 9-10 grains of Trail Boss allows you to shoot suppressed very quietly. It gives you the quiet capability of a close in shot. Most people are using them for hunting pigs.
In the woods, they are liable to see several. They can usually shoot 2 or 3 if they are shooting from a stand.
If they are walking about and come up to a field where there are pigs a couple of hundred yards away, you simply put in a supersonic round and fire.

The barrels are 16.5 inches long and threaded for any .30 can, threads being 5/8-24.

The barrel is a medium varmint size so that a can on it will be more stable and not whip around so much.

Of the few dozen that I made, every shooter has been very happy with them. The Savage is threaded for 20 TPI whereas the Remington is 16 TPI. Both require the lock nut. The one that comes on the Savage can be used, but the Remington lock nut can be ordered.

This barrel uses the best of both worlds in the .308 caliber and its very accurate out to longer ranges. It is as quiet as the Blackout, but it is superior to it at longer ranges.

But you still cant get a .308 AR to switch between supers and subs and still cycle like you can in a .300bo

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Re: advantages of 300 blk over 308

Post by madmax » Tue May 17, 2016 12:49 pm

I know it is an older thread, but I needed a study break, so you get my $.02. (basically what many have said, with a couple myths busted)

AR platform, 300BO, no contest. Flexibility. But this is about bolt guns...

For a bolt gun, IF you reload competently and like the challenge of making good loads, .308 wins, IMHO. I have both, and shoot both with a can. I love both. But...flexibility goes to the .308.

.308 Bolt advantages:
Loading subs is easy. No, you don't have to widen the primer pockets or use filler (myths I once believed). It is hard to prove a negative, but I am at well over 1000 subsonic rounds in several bolt guns and an M1A, and have used several cans, with no issues. I use 198s from Leatherhead, but have had good success with lots of different pills up to 220gr in a 1/10 twist. Never tried higher. Using unmodified (except reaming the mil crimp) LC cases, I trim once and forget. 10+ loads subsonic per case and still no issues. It is easy to crank out a few hundred rounds on a Dillon 550 and then go shoot. I have been shooting Red Dot, since Trailboss is rare as hens teeth here. Quiet as a mouse fart. Stupid quiet. The steel ringing at 100 yards is louder than the shot. Great way to get smaller framed folks into a rifle. Makes for cheap practice ammo, and with a good scope, switching to supers is easy and gives great flexibility (I use a Primary Arms ACSS 4-14, and dial the turrets for each zero). Case in point: my 12YO son shot around 200-300 subs to prep for elk season, and maybe 20 supers (to get him used to the extra recoil) through the same gun/scope/can combo (great cost savings). Then he went and took a nice 6X6 at 250 yards through the heart with the same gun/scope/can, but with Nosler pills going fast. For hunting, especially elk at longer ranges, this setup can't be beat.

.308 Bolt disadvantages: lack of off the shelf subs, a little bigger/heavier than comparable .300BO (I favor the RARR in both, but have a several others). You have to reload and know how to safely work DOWN a load to shoot subs. Also, when you adhere to a speed limit (subsonic) the only way to increase power is with more mass (because, well, physics), but as noted above, slower twists can make that harder in a .308.

.300BO advantages: mirror .308 disadvantages. More heavy rounds for sub hunting, more COTS sub ammo. IF I didn't reload, and only hunted deer at relatively close ranges with subsonics, I'd go with the .300BO. Also powder availability: 4227 is easier to find than Trailboss or Red Dot currently. Pills cost about the same, and it takes a bit more 4227 for 300BO than Red Dot for .308s, though the price difference is really negligible. BO brass is a little more costly, but again, not much. Stupid quiet in a bolt gun with a can, ballistics are basically identical when using the same pills at the same speed (you know, physics...), with slightly less SD on BO than .308 due to case capacity, but really not enough to make a noticeable difference when shooting prairie dogs or steel at 100 yards. The former rarely notice the shot, especially when it splats them. It is easy to crank out hundreds of rounds on the Dillon XL 650 and then go shoot. For this, the Leatherhead 220s are my go-to.

BL: when I want to have fun, I shoot my .300BO SBR AR with can and slidefire stock. For shooting whistle pigs, .308 subs or 300BO, or 17HMR. For practice for hunting, .308 subs. For elk, deer, bear, whatever, .308 supers give me more power, range and flexibility than the 300BO. But I love them both and would not trade either.

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Re: advantages of 300 blk over 308

Post by thisguysguns » Tue May 17, 2016 2:41 pm

There are 300 reasons why 300 BLK is better than .308 Win, but I'll go over some highlights:

1. Less expensive subsonic
2. less expensive to reload
3. smaller package,
4. being a part of 300BLKTalk
5. More 'Tacticool'
6. Bolt actions can be made suuuuuper light with no ill effects
7. the kool-aid tastes better

:lol:
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Re: advantages of 300 blk over 308

Post by hardcase » Tue May 17, 2016 3:28 pm

thisguysguns wrote:There are 300 reasons why 300 BLK is better than .308 Win, but I'll go over some highlights:

1. Less expensive subsonic
2. less expensive to reload
3. smaller package,
4. being a part of 300BLKTalk
5. More 'Tacticool'
6. Bolt actions can be made suuuuuper light with no ill effects
7. the kool-aid tastes better

:lol:
To these I would add LESS RECOIL as I'm old enough and bony enough (6 ft 170 lbs) that more than two 20 round .308 mags from my AR 10 or two .308 rounds from a light, 7.5 lb bolt gun is not fun anymore. And one of the reasons I learned to reload was so I could shoot a lot.

Another related to the old fart (60ish) thing is noise. I abused my hearing enough in my wayward youth that even with ear plugs and ear muffs a .308 is loud. We humans pick up a small, but significant amount of noise to our inner ear from skull bone structure, especially jaw bones. Some say they can even tell a difference by loud noises with their mouth open or teeth clinched. The older we get, the more sensative we are to loud noises if we abused our hearing in early life. I use to never shoot with hearing protection, and was a bouncer in a night club in college where the music was always wide open. A good way to tell if you have damaged your hearing is if after shooting you have ringing in your ears. If exposure to loud noises causes ringing in your ears, you have cause a bit of damage to your hearing, some say it is a very small amount that varies with the db of the noise. Ask an audiologist how they feel about loud noises. The first to go is high frequency hearing. If you are watching TV and have to have the treble turned up, that is a sign of high frequency hearing loss.

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Re: advantages of 300 blk over 308

Post by plant.one » Tue May 17, 2016 8:53 pm

what? :mrgreen: :mrgreen:







(sorry couldnt resist a going deaf one shot at a time joke)
Reloading info shared is based on experiences w/ my guns. Be safe and work up your loads from published data. Web data may not be accurate/safe.
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Re: advantages of 300 blk over 308

Post by jwb47 » Mon May 23, 2016 8:39 pm

HotGuns wrote:It is assumed that one would be smart enough to have figured out both subsonic and supersonic zero's before attempting such a thing.

However,since common sense has been outlawed in public schools where being mediocre is the standard and everyone gets a trophy for just showing up, perhaps that question is no longer as silly as it used to be.
Really you just assuned this all on your own , Or you regurgitating every snake oil salesman in the industry says to make a sale . I have killed more brain cells back in the 70's than you could ever have . I know what it takes I bought the rifle not the t-shirt all this bs about zero here and like magic your sub round will hit the same verticle axis just x number of inches low is bull shit unless you tailor loads and I dont see different manufacture collaberating on this except those who sell optics with cheezy BDC.

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Re: advantages of 300 blk over 308

Post by HotGuns » Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:20 pm

Image

Here's the last one I put .308 1/8 twist barrel on.

A friend of mine, Robert, former Army sniper, with his latest build.
A .308 with a special 1/8 twist barrel for shooting both supersonic and suppressed subsonic, with a McCree chassis,Magpul PRS stock, a Vortex Razor HD Gen II 4.5 x 27 x 56mm scope and XCaliber Mountaineer D suppressor. It's quiet and extremely accurate with a high WOW factor. This thing is a pleasure to shoot.

That's the latest Vortex on there. Cost 2500.00. The more play with it, the more I like it. Clear optics with zero stops that I really like.

Long range shooters are really loving those 1/8" twist barrels on the .308's.
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