Hi everyone,
I'm a big fan of the 300 blk cartridge in Ar's, so I've been thinking of buying a bolt gun for hunting and a more quiet suppressed gun. I've also been thinking of buying a 308 host for my suppressor to hunt with. Then it hit me that I should be able to load subsonic Lehigh ME's in a 308 case and accomplish the same goals as a 300 blk bolt gun.
Is there any thing that I'm overlooking other than the increased weight of the 308 rifle? I still plan to purchase both of the rifles, I'm just trying to prioritize which order to buy the guns in.
Thanks for your help.
advantages of 300 blk over 308
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Re: advantages of 300 blk over 308
One of our avid reloaders will chime in with a better answer soon. I wonder if there'd be a problemn with light loads in 308Win and having too much empty case volume. A 300blk case capacity os small enough so subsonic loads still fill most/all of the case.
Re: advantages of 300 blk over 308
I've loaded and shot plenty of subsonic loads in .308 bolt guns. Only issue is unless you get a custom barrel about the fastest twist rate you will find in stock offerings is 1/10. My Savage model 10 had no issues with 208gr bullets but did struggle a bit with 220's. The 220's grouped ok at 50 yards but keyholed at 100. Also while the groups were around 1-2" at 50 it was more like a pattern at 100.
Re: advantages of 300 blk over 308
Subsonic shooting the 300 Blackout makes better sense, you will have a better choice of powder or factory rounds. Off the shelf the Blackout will offer a better twist rate. It will be hard to find an off the shelf .308 with a 1/7 or 1/8 twist and that's what is needed to stabilize the 194 Lehigh. A 1/10 won't do it.
The .308 will give a 250 yard advantage in distance shooting supers.
If the rifles are set up the same, action, barrel length, they will weigh the same. Example both are available as a Remington 700. It is easier to find a light profile 300 Blackout.
The .308 will give a 250 yard advantage in distance shooting supers.
If the rifles are set up the same, action, barrel length, they will weigh the same. Example both are available as a Remington 700. It is easier to find a light profile 300 Blackout.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.
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Re: advantages of 300 blk over 308
For 308 subsonic, you have to ream the primer pockets and load with trailboss (or use an inert filler) to get it to kinda work. Secondary explosions are possibly if you use "pet loads" with small volume powder. No commercial loads are available to my knowledge. It is more expensive and more work. If subsonic rounds get the job done then 300blk wouldn't give anything up to 308.
Re: advantages of 300 blk over 308
While I do use Trailboss for my .308 subs I've never found it necessary to team or enlarge primer pockets.Dr Fumbles wrote:For 308 subsonic, you have to ream the primer pockets and load with trailboss (or use an inert filler) to get it to kinda work. Secondary explosions are possibly if you use "pet loads" with small volume powder. No commercial loads are available to my knowledge. It is more expensive and more work. If subsonic rounds get the job done then 300blk wouldn't give anything up to 308.
Re: advantages of 300 blk over 308
I think (not positive) Outlaw State bullets makes a 308 case that has the powder capacity of the 300 Blackout.
I have the company name on my other computer, will know for sure Monday.
I have the company name on my other computer, will know for sure Monday.
300 Blackout.....American as Apple Pie
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Re: advantages of 300 blk over 308
People are mentioning it but I'll continue.
When shooting SUBSONIC you will be hard pressed to find any real advantage of doing so with a 308 over a 300BLK. Why?
-When SUBSONIC, both rounds fly at the same speed so no distance or trajectory advantages gained from a 308
-The 300BLK was built from the ground up to be fired subsonic and suppressed so it is about as optimized as it comes for subsonic shooting
-This means smaller and more efficient case capacity
-As mentioned, 300BLK twist rates are much more conducive to stabilizing the long heavy bullets
-The powder selection for 300BLK subs is greater due to smaller case capacity
-AR15 platform is smaller, lighter, and supports 300BLK subsonic shooting (though u are going bolt gun you will likely get the bug for an AR once u fire subsonic)
When it comes to SUBSONIC shooting the 308 falls short in too many ways to the 300BLK. I highly doubt you will pick up the 308 to shoot subsonic rounds once you have a 300BLK. You may use the 308 subsonic JUST to have 2 rifles that shoot subsonic suppressed but just remember that most people own more than 1 300BLK rifle because of the versatility of the caliber.
I own three 300BLK for various reasons:
-10.5" AR15 SBR, for compact light night vision optimized hog hunting/decimation both subsonic and super suppressed. This is my specialized rifle.
-16" AR15, for super and/or subsonic hunting suppressed, also a 2nd rifle to hunt suppressed with for high round count hog hunting/decimation. This is my favorite 300BLK because it does it ALL, except being super compact.
-16" bolt action, for the quietest subsonic hunting imaginable, also works as a backup hunting gun for kids, girlfriends, elderly, and/or people who do not hunt often but want to learn or just want to learn to shoot without being scared or overwhelmed. Also works as a back up to my AR's when hunting, you never know when something will go wrong or if you knock a scope and don't have time or ability to sight back in.
Simple, most reliable, and scariest quiet rifle I have and the backup for hunting has come in HUGE, ask my brother who was striking out bow hunting then switched to my bolt action 300BLK and bagged two deer on the last day of our 2014 hunting trip
[Edit: My grammar is bad and I just had to fix one of the sentences below lol]
I see a lot of use in having 1 AR and 1 Bolt gun in 300BLK. It is so easy to legitimately justify having multiple rifles to shoot the 300BLK caliber, I can't think of another rifle caliber that can really do the same.
Now the 308 supersonic bolt gun vs 300BLk supersonic bolt gun to me is really more of an apples to oranges comparison, especially outside of 125yds but we are not here debating that
When shooting SUBSONIC you will be hard pressed to find any real advantage of doing so with a 308 over a 300BLK. Why?
-When SUBSONIC, both rounds fly at the same speed so no distance or trajectory advantages gained from a 308
-The 300BLK was built from the ground up to be fired subsonic and suppressed so it is about as optimized as it comes for subsonic shooting
-This means smaller and more efficient case capacity
-As mentioned, 300BLK twist rates are much more conducive to stabilizing the long heavy bullets
-The powder selection for 300BLK subs is greater due to smaller case capacity
-AR15 platform is smaller, lighter, and supports 300BLK subsonic shooting (though u are going bolt gun you will likely get the bug for an AR once u fire subsonic)
When it comes to SUBSONIC shooting the 308 falls short in too many ways to the 300BLK. I highly doubt you will pick up the 308 to shoot subsonic rounds once you have a 300BLK. You may use the 308 subsonic JUST to have 2 rifles that shoot subsonic suppressed but just remember that most people own more than 1 300BLK rifle because of the versatility of the caliber.
I own three 300BLK for various reasons:
-10.5" AR15 SBR, for compact light night vision optimized hog hunting/decimation both subsonic and super suppressed. This is my specialized rifle.
-16" AR15, for super and/or subsonic hunting suppressed, also a 2nd rifle to hunt suppressed with for high round count hog hunting/decimation. This is my favorite 300BLK because it does it ALL, except being super compact.
-16" bolt action, for the quietest subsonic hunting imaginable, also works as a backup hunting gun for kids, girlfriends, elderly, and/or people who do not hunt often but want to learn or just want to learn to shoot without being scared or overwhelmed. Also works as a back up to my AR's when hunting, you never know when something will go wrong or if you knock a scope and don't have time or ability to sight back in.
Simple, most reliable, and scariest quiet rifle I have and the backup for hunting has come in HUGE, ask my brother who was striking out bow hunting then switched to my bolt action 300BLK and bagged two deer on the last day of our 2014 hunting trip
[Edit: My grammar is bad and I just had to fix one of the sentences below lol]
I see a lot of use in having 1 AR and 1 Bolt gun in 300BLK. It is so easy to legitimately justify having multiple rifles to shoot the 300BLK caliber, I can't think of another rifle caliber that can really do the same.
Now the 308 supersonic bolt gun vs 300BLk supersonic bolt gun to me is really more of an apples to oranges comparison, especially outside of 125yds but we are not here debating that
Last edited by tallburnedmidget on Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:45 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Re: advantages of 300 blk over 308
I battled this same desicion right before I bought my 700. I ended up going with the blackout over the 308 primarily because I got a smoking deal on a brand new rifle on gunbroker. I'm glad I got the blk over the 308. Its my first and only 300blk and I've had it a year now and have fallen in love with the cartridge. I shoot primarily supers through mine so some might say I should have gone with the 308 but truth is shooting out to 400 yards is about all the farther I can go out at my place so it works out perfectly plus there's no recoil so it doesn't beat my shoulder up. For me I don't see 308 having any advantage over 300blk.
Re: advantages of 300 blk over 308
Thanks for the input everyone. I knew that people stayed away from subsonics in semi 308's because of cycling problems, but I assumed there must be a reason that people were not doing it in bolt guns for some reason or another. I think I'll probably buy the 308 first, since I already have a 300 blk in an AR platform. I'm still going to buy a 300 blk bolt gun also though.
Thanks again for your help.
Thanks again for your help.
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