Which RARR?

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bdill
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Which RARR?

Post by bdill » Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:51 pm

I’ve been shooting the 300blk for a while now and have gotten down to sub moa consistent 5 shot groups with my AR and reloads, but now I’m looking to get into the bolt action realm. I’ve got a 308 m700 at my gunsmith being built with a bartlein barrel and thought about just building a 300blk but wanted to try the RARR since I had such great accuracy out my other one in 308 before I sold it.

My question is which of the two RARR’s would you prefer? The model with the rotary mag or the one with the AR mags? I like to load long on some rifles as they seem to shoot better that way and don’t know if the rotary mag allows that much more length in OAL over the AR mag does.

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bdill
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Re: Which RARR?

Post by bdill » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:29 pm

I really just need someone to mic the rotary mag if possible

TRshootem
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Re: Which RARR?

Post by TRshootem » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:07 pm

The rotary mag will allow OAL of 2.260 comfortably, while leaving .005. Open Tip Match style bullets will likely drag on the tip at more than 2.260 ( mag opening on 3 samples averaged 2.260 +a few thousands. P mags would be about the same.

I have both the 5.56 and 300 BLK RARR. The BLK version can be finicky in OAL with some flat tip bullets, particularly the cast or cast/coated. The issue with these is the feeding of some of the blunt, full profile style. The bullet will hang up trying to find the angle to chamber. Bullets such as 110 Vmax,125 TNT, 208 Amax, 220 SMK and other longer ogive types feed very nicely. All this is also true of the AR platform, OAL is determined largely by the ability to reliably feed from the magazine. So, all that to say, seating longer than the max mag length of the average AR mag design is not likely to be successful. But fear not, they shoot very well! YMMV

bdill
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Re: Which RARR?

Post by bdill » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:02 am

Thank you very much. I figured that was the case but couldn’t figure it out no matter where I looked. I guess I’ll just go with the model that uses rotary mags and switch to an aics pattern in the future

Whole Bunches
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Re: Which RARR?

Post by Whole Bunches » Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:59 pm

I took a rotary mag and measured inside. The one I measured was about 2.29" inside. I am speculating that being made of plastic, each mag might differ a little. Since I use some of the same loads in different rifles, I load my Blackout OAL to 2.26 or less, depending upon the bullet. Loading to 2.29" OAL they might scrape inside the rotary mag.

Now if you want to feed the rifle with a longer OAL than 2.26" for the purposes of experimentation (if it will chamber), here's a thought: The top round loaded in the rotary mag, since the bullet tip is not INSIDE the mag, can be very long over all. For example, when I was shooting some of my Ruger Precision Rifle 5.56 ammo (2.35" OAL) in my RARR 5.56, I'd simply load the mag with one round at a time, and it fed perfectly. Of course the ammo being 2.35" OAL would not fit INSIDE the mag meant I could only load the mag with one round.

As to which model of RARR is better, I only have the rotary mag versions (2 of them). I've never had a problem with the mags, but other people have. I'd simply get the version that is in stock and not worry. I did notice that at first my 5 round rotary mags would only hold 5 shots. Hundreds of rounds later, I can now get 6 rounds loaded.

Of interest to me was your mentioning "aics pattern". I have on order the new Magpul Hunter stock for one of my RARR's. It is suppose to use my Ruger Precision 5.56 AICS mags. The Ruger 5.56 size AICS mags have an inside length of 2.61". I made some dummy Blackout rounds, loaded the Ruger AICS mag to see if they'd feed into the Precision 5.56 (I did not try to fully chamber them) since the Blackout rounds looked rather short in that long mag...they fed perfectly. Of course the Precision is not the RARR, but they both use the same action. Magpul says the color I ordered is in stock, so I hope to have it shortly. Obviously I'll need to do a posting as to whether to setup works or not, as that might be of interest to you.

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dellet
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Re: Which RARR?

Post by dellet » Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:47 pm

Whole Bunches wrote:I took a rotary mag and measured inside. The one I measured was about 2.29" inside. I am speculating that being made of plastic, each mag might differ a little. Since I use some of the same loads in different rifles, I load my Blackout OAL to 2.26 or less, depending upon the bullet. Loading to 2.29" OAL they might scrape inside the rotary mag.

Now if you want to feed the rifle with a longer OAL than 2.26" for the purposes of experimentation (if it will chamber), here's a thought: The top round loaded in the rotary mag, since the bullet tip is not INSIDE the mag, can be very long over all. For example, when I was shooting some of my Ruger Precision Rifle 5.56 ammo (2.35" OAL) in my RARR 5.56, I'd simply load the mag with one round at a time, and it fed perfectly. Of course the ammo being 2.35" OAL would not fit INSIDE the mag meant I could only load the mag with one round.

As to which model of RARR is better, I only have the rotary mag versions (2 of them). I've never had a problem with the mags, but other people have. I'd simply get the version that is in stock and not worry. I did notice that at first my 5 round rotary mags would only hold 5 shots. Hundreds of rounds later, I can now get 6 rounds loaded.

Of interest to me was your mentioning "aics pattern". I have on order the new Magpul Hunter stock for one of my RARR's. It is suppose to use my Ruger Precision 5.56 AICS mags. The Ruger 5.56 size AICS mags have an inside length of 2.61". I made some dummy Blackout rounds, loaded the Ruger AICS mag to see if they'd feed into the Precision 5.56 (I did not try to fully chamber them) since the Blackout rounds looked rather short in that long mag...they fed perfectly. Of course the Precision is not the RARR, but they both use the same action. Magpul says the color I ordered is in stock, so I hope to have it shortly. Obviously I'll need to do a posting as to whether to setup works or not, as that might be of interest to you.
I have a Model 7 and 700 that both will accept AICS mags, I think you will enjoy them

The don't know the longest I have loaded, but around 2.4-500" a number of bullets fall into that range. AICS pattern mags are externally sized for 308 rounds and then are either shimmed or molded smaller on the inside for .223, 6.8 and such. Mine I can load to I think 2.9

I have had more problems with really short, less than 2.00", feeding than long. Since you don't need to worry about the feeding violence of an auto loader, you can get things closer to the lands for accuracy and pick up some much needed powder space.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.

bdill
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Re: Which RARR?

Post by bdill » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:29 pm

Whole Bunches- yes I would love to hear back from what you find out on that please. I don’t know the differences in the two models and I’m not sure if the magpul stock will fit the model that accepts AR mags so that’s my reason on going with the rotary. The local shops close to me have the rotary model and one has both plus the cz 527 and rem 700.

Dellet- I have been very intrigued with the model 7 especially since I will let my son hunt with the 300blk or a .243 for his first deer rifles and it looks like the model 7 would be closer to fitting him but at the price the local shop wants I could almost buy 2 rugers. Now if I could justice the difference in price as far as reliability or accuracy then it’s a no brained and I’ll spend the extra coin. I have complete confidence in the remington line even though others have had issues I still seem to be lucky enough to get the good ones but I also don’t leave things stock for long. They usually get triggers, then stocks, and a while after that comes new barrels. I’ve looked all over for accuracy reports on the model 7 and all I can find is don’t shoot much to soon or the barrel will get hot and groups suffer. Every post I read about it makes it sound like I can only shoot 3 times before it starts going to crap. Is there any truth to this?

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dellet
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Re: Which RARR?

Post by dellet » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:00 pm

bdill wrote:Whole Bunches- yes I would love to hear back from what you find out on that please. I don’t know the differences in the two models and I’m not sure if the magpul stock will fit the model that accepts AR mags so that’s my reason on going with the rotary. The local shops close to me have the rotary model and one has both plus the cz 527 and rem 700.

Dellet- I have been very intrigued with the model 7 especially since I will let my son hunt with the 300blk or a .243 for his first deer rifles and it looks like the model 7 would be closer to fitting him but at the price the local shop wants I could almost buy 2 rugers. Now if I could justice the difference in price as far as reliability or accuracy then it’s a no brained and I’ll spend the extra coin. I have complete confidence in the remington line even though others have had issues I still seem to be lucky enough to get the good ones but I also don’t leave things stock for long. They usually get triggers, then stocks, and a while after that comes new barrels. I’ve looked all over for accuracy reports on the model 7 and all I can find is don’t shoot much to soon or the barrel will get hot and groups suffer. Every post I read about it makes it sound like I can only shoot 3 times before it starts going to crap. Is there any truth to this?
If you want to change things, look for available upgrades before you buy. My guess is Ruger has the least, then the Model 7, then of course the 700. Stocks and triggers will make the biggest difference.

The barrel is light weight. I had more trouble with stout loads than rate of fire. When I say stout I mean 175 grain bullets over 2000 fps. or 110’s at 2600+. 125 sst’s at 2200 fps were MOA, five shots in two minutes. I had kids burn through a hundred rounds in an hour of UMC supers and basically keeps a 3” group at 100. Could they hit 100 clays in a row, probably not, I might be able to.

I have one that I bought as a complete rifle, it had been on the shelf for a couple years. Actions became available a few years ago, I put together and SBR. Of my modern rifles, it’s by far my favorite.

Not sure how to compare it to the Ruger other than to say it’s been kid tested and reamed out. Stills shoots MOA with handloads. Can’t help with the to for one price idea, but I would trust Whole bunches opinion and I think he also has a Remington.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.

bdill
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Re: Which RARR?

Post by bdill » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:50 am

Athough I would like to leave the next purchase alone other than changing the stock and trigger, I’ve been looking at different parts for the model 7 and rarr and it seems like the rarr is lacking in parts but I’ve read in a few places that the Ruger Precision is the same action so could we use parts from the Ruger Precision on the RARR? . I don’t expect this to be a 1/2” group at 300 yards type of gun but I do like to think it’s capable of doing .5-.75 moa at 100 if I do my part on the reloads and shooting then I’d be content with that. The Boyd’s and magpul offerings cover the stocks and last I checked timney was making triggers for the rarr. I’m just curious if Ruger has changed the rarr lately due to the amount of feeding/chambering problems I’m reading about. Doesn’t seem like either the 700 or model 7 share these issues.

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Re: Which RARR?

Post by bdill » Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:49 pm

Well I went ahead and bought the RARR with the rotary mag today and loaded the mag full with factory Hornady black with 208 amax to see if it would jam the nose to the top of the chamber. Well the first 2 rounds jam up almost every time but the last 3 feed fine. It looks as though the feed lips on the magazine are a little to long for the feed ramp. Idk if I’m wrong or not but I figured I could always buy more mags or switch over to the aics mags so I’m going to shorten the feed lips to about an 1/8” behind the shoulder which would be taking a lot off considering the lips go what appears to be 1/4” past the case mouth. Unless someone thinks that won’t help or has tried it and it didn’t help for them at all but the bolt will jump on top of the case head on the first 2 rounds once they touch the feed ramp and I can back the bolt off and then push again and it’s fine. I just think that if the round jumps out of the mag sooner and gets on top of the mag it should feed perfectly.

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