So...bad rifle or just bad ammo (RARR)?

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Re: So...bad rifle or just bad ammo (RARR)?

Post by rebel » Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:41 pm

ScottC wrote:Solstice, I'm going to second rebel's advice. Every, and I do mean every, failure to fire I've experienced has been due to excessive headspace. When it happens I take the round home and drop it in a slotted Sheridan gauge. They always fall below the minimum. This is all handloaded ammo with CCI 450 primers. The perplexing thing is that I can't figure out how some cases are getting sized too short. My best guess is varying brass hardness affecting the sizing.

If the rounds are short, it's the ammo, otherwise it's the gun.

Early on I had an issue with the extractor failing to catch the rim and extract the spent case. Ruger sent me the three parts and it was obvious that I had a defective extractor when comparing the new and old. Extraction has been perfect since the replacement.
It's really a perfect storm Scott. Excessively long chamber and short ammo. If handloading you can control it.
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Re: So...bad rifle or just bad ammo (RARR)?

Post by Zapp » Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:03 am

ScottC wrote:Solstice, I'm going to second rebel's advice. Every, and I do mean every, failure to fire I've experienced has been due to excessive headspace. When it happens I take the round home and drop it in a slotted Sheridan gauge. They always fall below the minimum. This is all handloaded ammo with CCI 450 primers. The perplexing thing is that I can't figure out how some cases are getting sized too short. My best guess is varying brass hardness affecting the sizing.
How short are they, relative to the others? Do you check them after sizing, but before seating the bullet?

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Re: So...bad rifle or just bad ammo (RARR)?

Post by dellet » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:24 am

Zapp wrote:
ScottC wrote:Solstice, I'm going to second rebel's advice. Every, and I do mean every, failure to fire I've experienced has been due to excessive headspace. When it happens I take the round home and drop it in a slotted Sheridan gauge. They always fall below the minimum. This is all handloaded ammo with CCI 450 primers. The perplexing thing is that I can't figure out how some cases are getting sized too short. My best guess is varying brass hardness affecting the sizing.
How short are they, relative to the others? Do you check them after sizing, but before seating the bullet?
It's almost as important to check them BEFORE sizing or loading the first time.
A case that was too short to begin with, will not grow enough if used as a sub load until it's been fired many times. Generally they will fire in an AR, but not in any of the bolt actions or single shots.

Most new brass is sized at minimum spec, and a lot is shorter. I try to shoot all new brass first as a super.
300 Blackout, not just for sub-sonics.

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Re: So...bad rifle or just bad ammo (RARR)?

Post by ScottC » Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:08 pm

Answering several replies and hoping some of this discussion is useful to Solstice who revived this thread...

I agree that an excessively long chamber should be corrected and not compensated for with long ammo. I guess this calls for a set of go/nogo gauges for Solstice.

All my cases are dropped in a Wilson case gauge to check length after sizing and final polish. This is a very quick test and it's possible that I've missed a few short ones along the way. I don't use the Sheridan gauge on all cases, it's much slower. The AR will eat a short case quite happily, it's only the RARR that's picky about them. For a critical use such as hunting, I'd use the Sheridan on the finished rounds.

Note that I keep the RARR subsonic cases separate from the AR cases. I do however shoot the AR supers in the RARR and that seems to be where the majority of the short cases come from. It's a different batch of brass that's seen more abuse that the once fired that was used to make the RARR brass.

I don't have any failure rounds at the moment. The bullets have been pulled and the cases disposed of. From memory, the short ones are noticeably below the lowest ledge on the Sheridan, about the same amount as the difference between the gauge end and lowest ledge.

I think this all just goes to show that the small shoulder on the 300BLK is a much less forgiving than the larger shoulder on most other rounds.

Hopefully some of this info is useful to Solstice. As for me, I'm fine with a few FTFs in the RARR when just shooting at a 6" plate at 200.

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Re: So...bad rifle or just bad ammo (RARR)?

Post by Zapp » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:36 am

ScottC wrote: All my cases are dropped in a Wilson case gauge to check length after sizing and final polish. This is a very quick test and it's possible that I've missed a few short ones along the way. I don't use the Sheridan gauge on all cases, it's much slower. The AR will eat a short case quite happily, it's only the RARR that's picky about them. For a critical use such as hunting, I'd use the Sheridan on the finished rounds.
Why do you find the Sheridan slower? Is it not a slotted gauge that you have? The slotted should be pretty quick to use a finger to pop the brass back out. I am always interested in hearing customer feedback, in case there is something I can improve on the gauges.
ScottC wrote: I don't have any failure rounds at the moment. The bullets have been pulled and the cases disposed of. From memory, the short ones are noticeably below the lowest ledge on the Sheridan, about the same amount as the difference between the gauge end and lowest ledge.
That is a pretty big difference, about 0.014". I often see the factory ammo sitting a little short, but usually not THAT short.

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Re: So...bad rifle or just bad ammo (RARR)?

Post by ScottC » Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:21 pm

Zapp wrote: Why do you find the Sheridan slower? Is it not a slotted gauge that you have? The slotted should be pretty quick to use a finger to pop the brass back out. I am always interested in hearing customer feedback, in case there is something I can improve on the gauges.
It's slower because it so darn accurate and measures the outer dimensions along with the headspace. The smallest amount of dirt on the case or just slightly over diameter will require pressing the round in which makes it stick in the gauge.

Starting with a bucket of sized cases on the right and an empty bucket on the left. With the Wilson I just pick a case with the right hand, drop it in the Wilson in the left hand, take a quick look, then flip the gauge over to drop the case in the other bucket. The looser gauge allows the case to drop out. This makes a difference when doing 500+ in a sitting. It catches most, but apparently not all, of the off sized cases. But the time saving is immense.

Don't get me wrong, I love that slotted gauge for diagnosing problems or for critical ammo. But for casual shooting at the range ammo I'm willing to put up with a dud round every now and then for the time savings at the loading bench. It seems to occur about once per 200-300 rounds.
Zapp wrote: That is a pretty big difference, about 0.014". I often see the factory ammo sitting a little short, but usually not THAT short.
Yah, and that's the part that has me perplexed. I've played with the defectives and they are obvious in both gauges. So obvious in fact that I can't imagine missing one during the batch check described above. Part of me is thinking maybe it's happening when the bullet is seated. I just can't figure out how.

However it's happening, since it's a safe failure, I'm willing to put up with the few I get in plinking ammo. Critical ammo would all go through the Sheridan as the final step after bullet seating.

So, you're the maker of the gauge? Thanks for a superior product.

---Scott.

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Re: So...bad rifle or just bad ammo (RARR)?

Post by Zapp » Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:54 pm

ScottC wrote: Starting with a bucket of sized cases on the right and an empty bucket on the left. With the Wilson I just pick a case with the right hand, drop it in the Wilson in the left hand, take a quick look, then flip the gauge over to drop the case in the other bucket. The looser gauge allows the case to drop out. This makes a difference when doing 500+ in a sitting. It catches most, but apparently not all, of the off sized cases.
In case it helps to know, their 300BLK gauge is about 0.005" larger diameter than the SAAMI chamber max, as measured with pin gauges. The Sheridan is at the SAAMI chamber min.

ScottC wrote: However it's happening, since it's a safe failure, I'm willing to put up with the few I get in plinking ammo. Critical ammo would all go through the Sheridan as the final step after bullet seating.

So, you're the maker of the gauge? Thanks for a superior product.

---Scott.
You are welcome, good to hear it is helpful.

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So bad rifle or just bad ammo RARR

Post by bennielof » Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:58 pm

Hmmm...more ammo being wasted, lol, seriously this one could be fun.

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Re: So...bad rifle or just bad ammo (RARR)?

Post by rebel » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:49 pm

Hmmmm....seriously do you own a 300 Blackout? WTH kind of response is that?
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