So...bad rifle or just bad ammo (RARR)?

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RWA007
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So...bad rifle or just bad ammo (RARR)?

Post by RWA007 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:56 pm

Hey all,

I’m probably answering my own question, but given the history of the RARR with a lot of them needing to be sent back to Ruger with bad bolts or other issues I just wanted to get your opinions. Yes, I am OCD.

In my RARR 300blk rifle (Serial # range 693-87XXX) that I have had since December of 2015 (a little over a year now), I’ve had 5 failures-to-fire in 198 rounds total. (12 or so different batches of factory, re-manufactured and hand-loaded ammo) One of those fired the second time I tried it so I saved the other 4 rounds. 2 of them were from one batch of re-manufactured ammo (Ozark 147 gr fmj) and 2 of them were from another batch of re-manufactured ammo (Freedom 110 gr Vmax). So far all of my hand-loads and all other factory ammo have fired perfectly from the rifle. I just bought a Sheridan gauge (received it TODAY in fact!) to see if the 4 saved rounds were out of spec before I blame the rifle and send it back to Ruger. When dropped into the Sheridan gauge all 4 of them are BELOW the “Min Brass Dimension” (lowest) shelf of the gauge. They are .014, .013, .013 and .016 below the shelf. I’ve dropped a few other unfired rounds from those same batches into the Sheridan gauge and so far the ones I’ve tried are all in spec.(I’ve only tried a dozen or so from each batch so far).
I contacted Ruger a few weeks back before I ordered the gauge telling them of the misfire issue and they authorized a return and wanted to see the whole rifle (not just the bolt). That is when I decided to get a Sheridan gauge to see if the AMMO was out of spec…which it clearly is. I was ok sending them the bolt...but I really didn't want to send them the whole rifle.

My question is: Would you still send the rifle back to Ruger at this point after getting the results I did with the new Sheridan gauge, or would you leave well enough alone? I’m always a little bit leary of sending my rifle(s) anywhere at all and now that I’ve sort of confirmed that the rounds are in fact out of spec that didn’t fire…I’m thinking maybe there is nothing wrong with my rifle at all. Other than the misfires with the out of spec ammo…the rifle is perfect. It’s extremely accurate. I guess my question really is...are the rounds I measured out of spec enough to cause a fail to fire or is the rifle still a little suspect?

Opinions?

Thanks in advance!
Randy

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smustian
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Re: So...bad rifle or just bad ammo (RARR)?

Post by smustian » Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:05 pm

Bad ammo. The shoulder was set back too far. No need to send the rifle anywhere. Keep using your reloads or factory ammo.

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dellet
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Re: So...bad rifle or just bad ammo (RARR)?

Post by dellet » Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:08 pm

Sounds more like an ammo problem.

The gauge is good, but to really answer the question you would need a measurement of the failed rounds and firing pin protrusion. I will venture to say that there has been more bad ammo than bad Ruger's out there, from what I have seen.

If the ammo is using hard primers or military primers this will compound the problem.

All Ruger will do is confirm headspace and firing pin, Sounds like you already have an answer that has a 95% chance of being correct.

what smus said
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rebel
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Re: So...bad rifle or just bad ammo (RARR)?

Post by rebel » Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:33 pm

Been there done that. The only thing they do with the bolt is change the extractor. Bad ammo, there is lot's of it out there. Best take your comparator to the gun shop before you buy or come to a place where the owner has checked what he has 8)
OCD is kind of a term that is loosely used today. Attention to detail sounds a bit better and will serve you well :P
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bangbangping
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Re: So...bad rifle or just bad ammo (RARR)?

Post by bangbangping » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:18 pm

rebel wrote:OCD is kind of a term that is loosely used today. Attention to detail sounds a bit better and will serve you well :P
I prefer CDO. It's like OCD, but in correct alphabetical order. :mrgreen:

That said, measuring the brass after a fail to fire isn't always meaningful, especially if you struck it several times and/or the brass is soft. The force of the firing pin can move the shoulder back, sometimes significantly.

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Re: So...bad rifle or just bad ammo (RARR)?

Post by TMD » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:29 pm

Can't blame the rifle on bad ammo.

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Re: So...bad rifle or just bad ammo (RARR)?

Post by A-Game » Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:42 pm

RARR is magical and perfect, it will always be the ammo :mrgreen:
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Re: So...bad rifle or just bad ammo (RARR)?

Post by Whole Bunches » Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:27 am

I had some failures to fire with my two RARR's and my Remington M700, and my Remington M7 Micro, and my Handi Rifle, all in 300 BLK.

There were 2 problems giving me about a 3-4% failure to fire, unsatisfactory for hunting purposes for sure.

1) The use of hard primers. I now use CCI 400 in all the above non AR rifles.

2) My sizing die was setting the shoulder back too far. Using the Sheridan gauge, I found that with my dies, shell holder and press combination, that I needed to screw the die in until it touched the shell holder and then unscrew it 1/2 turn and lock it in place then...that gave cartridge headspace inbetween too little and too much, just perfect. Note: setting the shoulder back too far only gave problems in one of my AR uppers, but not in any of my other AR uppers.

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Re: So...bad rifle or just bad ammo (RARR)?

Post by smustian » Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:35 am

Whole Bunches wrote:I had some failures to fire with my two RARR's and my Remington M700, and my Remington M7 Micro, and my Handi Rifle, all in 300 BLK.

There were 2 problems giving me about a 3-4% failure to fire, unsatisfactory for hunting purposes for sure.

1) The use of hard primers. I now use CCI 400 in all the above non AR rifles.

2) My sizing die was setting the shoulder back too far. Using the Sheridan gauge, I found that with my dies, shell holder and press combination, that I needed to screw the die in until it touched the shell holder and then unscrew it 1/2 turn and lock it in place then...that gave cartridge headspace inbetween too little and too much, just perfect. Note: setting the shoulder back too far only gave problems in one of my AR uppers, but not in any of my other AR uppers.
Prime example of what has been said ad nauseam. Each rifle is different and you have to find what works for YOUR rifle.

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Re: So...bad rifle or just bad ammo (RARR)?

Post by RWA007 » Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:48 pm

Thanks for all the replies everyone!

Fairly convinced my chamber is in spec. I love the rifle. Having the Sheridan gauge is nice and I'm glad I got it. I've checked about 100 rounds of various ammo and they are all in spec according to the gauge. If ANY of them fail to fire I'll know I've got an issue that I need to deal with but in the meantime I'm pretty sure the issues I had were related to out of spec ammo.

Thanks again!
Randy

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