Bump Stock ban

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rlandry6
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Re: Bump Stock ban

Post by rlandry6 »

Without eating up bandwidth to quote a very lengthy but well thought out and written post...

Kudos. I hope everyone will share this on their Facebook feed and also forward it to your representatives.
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Mike7.62
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Re: Bump Stock ban

Post by Mike7.62 »

I suppose that they will have to ban rubber bands as well. A simple rubber band wrapped around the mag well and the rear of the trigger will give the same effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5XzQ1BS7gU
ThreeHundredBlackout
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Re: Bump Stock ban

Post by ThreeHundredBlackout »

plant.one wrote:i fired off the following letter to my reps this morning.

feel free to use freely, or modify to suit your personal tastes as needed

The tragedy in Florida last week saddens me to no end. 17 family's lives were destroyed by the actions of one misguided animal intent on inflicting harm on others. We may never know why, but hopefully justice will be served.


What saddens me even worse is the vitriol being spread nation wide about people who had nothing to do with this massacre. We've been bombarded nonstop with cries of our shared responsibility in this case. How evil firearms are. How we law abiding citizens who support the 2nd amendment are seemingly all mass murdering monsters who just dont know the depth of our own evil, yet.

Guns arent the problem. Our current Laws arent the problem. Our rights to own firearms isnt the problem. Firearm accessories arent the problem.

The problem is people who have no respect for the lives of others.

The problem is people who will use a tragedy like this to push a political agenda.

The problem is people in positions of responsibility who could have stopped this very tragedy failed to do so, even after several VERY specific warnings about this shooter.


So to solve these problems - we're told over and over that we need more laws, because we who already respect the current laws are the problem. Our rights are the problem. Our freedom is the problem.

The thing is - for someone who's already going to commit murder, even the murder of only a single person - that person isnt going to worry about what other laws they have to break to do that heinous act. They're already contemplating breaking one of the worst laws they can break - taking the life of another human. In the case of the recent events, It would have been just as easy for this shooter to take his car, wait until school was dismissed for the day, and run a bunch of people over in the parking lot or on the sidewalks. There's precedent - its been happening all over the world.

So further restricting peoples rights to specific types - or all types - of firearms isnt the answer. That will only affect those of us who already follow the laws. Restricting firearms accessories isnt the answer for the same reason.


There are around 300 million guns in private ownership in the US today. There are trillions of rounds of ammo in private ownership today to feed those 300 million firearms. There are thousands of firearms accessories and an untold variety of configurations they can be combined in. If any of these things were the REAL problem - we'd know it! It wouldnt just manifest itself in the occasional person who wants to murder someone (or multiple someones).

Unfortunately - laws cant dictate morality. They cant force 100% of people to be a functional normal part of society. If they could we wouldnt have ANY of the problems we have with society today as all of the most heinous acts we consider detrimental to society are already illegal under current law - Rape, Murder, Theft, Assault, Discrimination - just to name a few.

So please, as a law abiding gun owner i'm asking you to not support any changes that restrict our rights as a firearm owner because of this tragedy.

Dont make those of us who already obey the laws pay a penalty for the very small segment of society that refuse to.


As an active voter in your representative district, i consider gun rights a single issue stance. I will be following your actions in regard to this and it will STRONGLY weigh into my voting decisions in future elections.

Thank you for your time and consideration on this matter, i look forward to your response.


Well done plant.
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hardcase
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Re: Bump Stock ban

Post by hardcase »

I haven't seen much about bump fire stocks in the last few days but I'll admit I keep scrolling when the New York based news experts start commenting about gun laws. I actually saw one call them AK 15s. You would think these expert commentators could at least get their accronyms correct. I did see highlights of three big commercial buses, not school buses, of high school kids supposedly heading to Tallahassee. Probably a Michael Moore sponsored event.

There was one commentator that called them weapons of mass destruction :shock: .
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Re: Bump Stock ban

Post by bearcatrp »

ThreeHundredBlackout wrote:
bearcatrp wrote:I have one. It’s on my 15-22. Still haven’t figured it out to work as advertised. Can get it to rapid fire a couple, then stop. I can rapid fire faster with my finger. Wasn’t worth the money I paid for it. But I can’t see them coming after just this when custom triggers can be adjusted to like 2 oz and a fast finger could rapid fire. Think the government will have to reclassify what a machine gun is in order to ban bump fire mechanisms!

I looked this up, ATF classification of a machine gun ....
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-g ... initions-0

Not sure how bump fire was cleared for sale after reading this.

"automatically more than one shot without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger"

Aka: Fully....Automatic, requiring no trigger reset, meaning holding down the trigger without letting off.

Or

Firing 2+ shots wo manual reloading [not possible with a standard semiauto AR-15 ] but might possibly would be applied to something (like a double barrel shothun with only one trigger that fires both barrels at the same time.) Not to be confused with a dbl barrel gun with 2 or more triggers that can be fired at the same time but you have to pull more than one trigger thus completely different.
A bump stock does just that. Pull trigger once, empties the clip. doesnt for me but have seen you tube videos of this in action. So, bump stocks should have been illegal from the start, right?
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Re: Bump Stock ban

Post by ThreeHundredBlackout »

bearcatrp wrote:
ThreeHundredBlackout wrote:
bearcatrp wrote:I have one. It’s on my 15-22. Still haven’t figured it out to work as advertised. Can get it to rapid fire a couple, then stop. I can rapid fire faster with my finger. Wasn’t worth the money I paid for it. But I can’t see them coming after just this when custom triggers can be adjusted to like 2 oz and a fast finger could rapid fire. Think the government will have to reclassify what a machine gun is in order to ban bump fire mechanisms!

I looked this up, ATF classification of a machine gun ....
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-g ... initions-0

Not sure how bump fire was cleared for sale after reading this.

"automatically more than one shot without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger"

Aka: Fully....Automatic, requiring no trigger reset, meaning holding down the trigger without letting off.

Or

Firing 2+ shots wo manual reloading [not possible with a standard semiauto AR-15 ] but might possibly would be applied to something (like a double barrel shothun with only one trigger that fires both barrels at the same time.) Not to be confused with a dbl barrel gun with 2 or more triggers that can be fired at the same time but you have to pull more than one trigger thus completely different.
A bump stock does just that. Pull trigger once, empties the clip. doesnt for me but have seen you tube videos of this in action. So, bump stocks should have been illegal from the start, right?
No it doesn't.

You are actually pulling the trigger multiple times....30 times to be precise for a 30 rd mag. And you have to keep forward pressure for the mechanism to function properly.

Its a magazine...not a clip.... (see Jerry Miculek video on 30 caliber clip)

No, bump stocks should not be illegal at all whatsoever, if you think so then you better get ready to register all your belt loops with the atf at the tune of $200 each.

The point is this, the mechanics of a semi-auto trigger pack make it impossible to become a "machinegun"........you lack a 3 position selector, a fa disconnector, and auto sear, an fa hammer, and some people are even missing the fa carrier group......therefore you do not possess the necessary parts to constitute possessing a machingun.

You have to read the definition and look at it for what it says.

Full-auto function is just that on a machinegun.......
Lets see you one hand mag dump a 30 rd or even a 5 rd mag with a bump stock like a full auto by just holding down that trigger......it can not physically happen.

For good reference look up ar-15 auto-sear and m16 full auto function to see how it works and it will explain itself.

Conversion to full auto requires many parts to be functional and work correctly and is not possible with the ar-15 semi trigger pack unless you have something like a lightening link, which is cheap made compared to a true autosear and fa trigger pack.

Im short a bumpstock only "simulates" the high rate of fire of a machine gun.....someome please chime in with the true RPM contrast of both if you know, i cant recall of the top of my head.
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dellet
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Re: Bump Stock ban

Post by dellet »

Any semi auto rifle or pistol with recoil can be “bump fired” in either well trained hands or poorly trained hands. It’s the hands in between that can’t do it. 8)

Bump stocks and pistol braces do not violate the letter of the law, but the way they are used probably violates the spirit of the law. What allows them right now is only an opinion and that can change at any time. No one wants to challenge that opinion in court that wants to keep them. Right now there’s is a growing number of people who want to get rid of them, who will challenge it.

Research the laws, timing and tactics used to ban automatic knives and you will see history repeating itself.
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plant.one
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Re: Bump Stock ban

Post by plant.one »

ThreeHundredBlackout wrote:
bearcatrp wrote:
ThreeHundredBlackout wrote:

"automatically more than one shot without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger"

Aka: Fully....Automatic, requiring no trigger reset, meaning holding down the trigger without letting off.

Or

Firing 2+ shots wo manual reloading [not possible with a standard semiauto AR-15 ] but might possibly would be applied to something (like a double barrel shothun with only one trigger that fires both barrels at the same time.) Not to be confused with a dbl barrel gun with 2 or more triggers that can be fired at the same time but you have to pull more than one trigger thus completely different.
A bump stock does just that. Pull trigger once, empties the clip. doesnt for me but have seen you tube videos of this in action. So, bump stocks should have been illegal from the start, right?
No it doesn't.

You are actually pulling the trigger multiple times....30 times to be precise for a 30 rd mag. And you have to keep forward pressure for the mechanism to function properly.

please take a moment, read that again and let it sink in. this is critical because of the following.
dellet wrote:Any semi auto rifle or pistol with recoil can be “bump fired” in either well trained hands or poorly trained hands. It’s the hands in between that can’t do it. 8)

bump firing is a process which can be done many many many ways. a bump stock is just one tool for it.

however - the only way to ensure that nobody can bump fire a firearm would be to ban all semi-automatic firearms.

which if we're being honest with each other, is exactly what the left wants.




but stop and think about this another way. bump firing is one of many ways to increase the rate of fire(rof) on a semi auto firearm. so if you're going to ban one product that is a ROF modifier, you really have to go after all of them, otherwise the law/regulation wont stand in a court of law. its the same thing they did with the arm braces. it didnt matter what style of brace it was, they all had to be lumped in. So its gonna have to be bump stocks, any "crank" type tools - including the BMF ammo waster for your 10/22, binary trigger systems, and who knows what else.


so the big questions becomes -

1)who and what is going to be the definition of a ROF modifier
2) what exactly will be determined to be an acceptable ROF for any given firearm (or all firearms)

i know especially #2 may seem silly, but its going to have to be defined, again otherwise what limits will the regulation/law follow? to say something is modified - you have to have a baseline to begin from. states that have high capacity magazine bans first had to determine what was acceptable (by enacting magazine limits) before they could say something was "high capacity".
Reloading info shared is based on experiences w/ my guns. Be safe and work up your loads from published data. Web data may not be accurate/safe.
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BadKarmaZeroSix
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Re: Bump Stock ban

Post by BadKarmaZeroSix »

Just make a deal that bump stocks may be owned as transferrable machine guns, but they must open the registry to all full autos and bump stocks that have been produced since 1986, to include current pre-and-post samples, then allow civilians to flood the NFA again...sorry, but i'd be ok with a long wait if i could finally afford a registed FA lower...or 10...
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Re: Bump Stock ban

Post by bearcatrp »

Ok folks. I get it. Will be interesting to see if they turn bump stocks into a NFA item, will they make all retailers cough up all sales receipts and come knocking on theirs of owners. I don’t care to own any NFA item until my suppressor comes in. But that may be in jeopardy as a tard DFL representative will be introducing a bill this Friday in Minnesota to make suppressors illegal. Heck, we got got this approved a few years ago to own. Doubt it will pass but could go either way given current environment. I actually broke mine taking it off a few months ago so just chucked it in the garbage.
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