Bump Stock ban

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BadKarmaZeroSix
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Re: Bump Stock ban

Post by BadKarmaZeroSix » Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:34 am

I'm wondering why nobody has pointed out what i think is a major oversight...these weapons (re: the Vegas shooting) were allegedly utilizing bipods to "create greater accuracy over longer distance" as was stated by some law enforcement official on TV...anyone ever try using a bump stock while on a bipod rest? It doesn't work. The rifle doesn't move enough from recoil to allow stock to slide back and forth freely. You might get 2 or 3 rounds, but certainly not the sustained fire that i heard during the shooting...
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hardcase
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Re: Bump Stock ban

Post by hardcase » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:41 am

I'm reasonably sure I saw the tail end of a news blurb where gov Kasich of Ohio signed a bill allowing for gun confiscation of someone charged with domestic violence. Seems reasonable, except for incremental gun confiscation. What next?

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Re: Bump Stock ban

Post by 10ring1 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:04 pm

Forgive my ignorance. Where does this stand at this point? I don't own a slide fire but I see a ton of people trying g to sell them. Is that legal? Are they knowingly trying to screw their buyer? Makes me angry and I would like to call these sellers out.

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Re: Bump Stock ban

Post by alamo5000 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:33 pm

10ring1 wrote:Forgive my ignorance. Where does this stand at this point? I don't own a slide fire but I see a ton of people trying g to sell them. Is that legal? Are they knowingly trying to screw their buyer? Makes me angry and I would like to call these sellers out.
No one knows the outcome.

What they are proposing is a ATF rule change which the basic procedure is:

1. Proposal (in this case they proposed changing the rule that says bump stocks actually do turn a semi automatic into a machine gun)
2. It gets all written up formally.
3. It goes to public comment, which takes months. Currently we are at this point still.
4. After the comment period closes, each comment has to be read and classified and so forth.
5. Depending on the commentary and political will involved the case will either be dropped in it's entirety or it will be adopted.

A case where it was adopted was changing 41P to 41F...which changed how trusts operate as well as eliminating the need to get CLEO signatures etc.

A case where it was dropped was when they proposed banning a certain type of AR ammunition. They got overwhelming amounts of comments so in the end they said 'nope' and just dropped it.

We are still in step #3.

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Re: Bump Stock ban

Post by 10ring1 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:55 am


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MMA10mm
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Re: Bump Stock ban

Post by MMA10mm » Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:45 pm

Actually public comment period closed back in January.
alamo5000 wrote:
10ring1 wrote:Forgive my ignorance. Where does this stand at this point? I don't own a slide fire but I see a ton of people trying g to sell them. Is that legal? Are they knowingly trying to screw their buyer? Makes me angry and I would like to call these sellers out.
No one knows the outcome.

What they are proposing is a ATF rule change which the basic procedure is:

1. Proposal (in this case they proposed changing the rule that says bump stocks actually do turn a semi automatic into a machine gun)
2. It gets all written up formally.
3. It goes to public comment, which takes months. Currently we are at this point still.
4. After the comment period closes, each comment has to be read and classified and so forth.
5. Depending on the commentary and political will involved the case will either be dropped in it's entirety or it will be adopted.

A case where it was adopted was changing 41P to 41F...which changed how trusts operate as well as eliminating the need to get CLEO signatures etc.

A case where it was dropped was when they proposed banning a certain type of AR ammunition. They got overwhelming amounts of comments so in the end they said 'nope' and just dropped it.

We are still in step #3.

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Sithlord
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Re: Bump Stock ban

Post by Sithlord » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:59 am

MMA10mm wrote:Actually public comment period closed back in January.
ATF-2018-0002-0001 Bump-Stock Type Device Proposed Rule Change was Posted March 29, 2018, with comments closing June 27, 2018.

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0002-0001

ATF and The Government are currently reviewing comments. There were almost 200k comments. Many, from what I read, were form letter copies, and so will be easy to dismiss.

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plant.one
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Re: Bump Stock ban

Post by plant.one » Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:05 pm

alamo5000 wrote:
No one knows the outcome.

What they are proposing is a ATF rule change which the basic procedure is:

1. Proposal (in this case they proposed changing the rule that says bump stocks actually do turn a semi automatic into a machine gun)
2. It gets all written up formally.
3. It goes to public comment, which takes months. Currently we are at this point still.
4. After the comment period closes, each comment has to be read and classified and so forth.
5. Depending on the commentary and political will involved the case will either be dropped in it's entirety or it will be adopted.

A case where it was adopted was changing 41P to 41F...which changed how trusts operate as well as eliminating the need to get CLEO signatures etc.

A case where it was dropped was when they proposed banning a certain type of AR ammunition. They got overwhelming amounts of comments so in the end they said 'nope' and just dropped it.
if i had to pull out my crystal ball and make a prediction.....

we are probably going to expierence a 41P -> 41F result rather than the reversal that happened with m855 bullets.

why? its a numbers game


the wording on the bullet language essentially affected *EVERY* rifle on the planet basically. as such it was a direct threat to pretty much every gun owner in the county. therefore even people who generally avoid this kind of thing probably signed a form letter and submitted it. ALLL the gun rights orgs were fighting the proposed m855 regulations.

conversely.... bump stocks are a novelty item owned by a - relative - very small slice of gun owners. it has - especially with the language proposed - a minimal effect on most firearms owners. it also has quite limited opposition from the gun rights groups. without those people stirring up their member bases to fight it.... the response of "keep things the same" vs "meh, whatever" vs "ban them! evil bastard toys!" is likely going to tilt toward the latter two as the anti's can always fire up their people for an email/letter writing campaign.


10ring1 wrote:Forgive my ignorance. Where does this stand at this point? I don't own a slide fire but I see a ton of people trying g to sell them. Is that legal? Are they knowingly trying to screw their buyer? Makes me angry and I would like to call these sellers out.
folks are taking advantage of people who are of the "buy it because it might be outlawed" mentality.... its a way to get their investment into a toy back out, and probably make a few bucks along the way. as well as getting rid of an item that might put them on the wrong side of the law 6 months from now if things go as predicted/expected.

as of right now - with their legal status still listed as ok, there's nothing wrong with what sellers doing. so while making a few bucks on a panic buy type of situation might be a little shady, otherwise... nothing that can legally be done about it. especailly when you can be sure that many folks who are buying them - and probably MOST at this point - know that there's a potential ban looming on them. i'm sure the same thing happened when hellfire trigger regulations were in the proposal stage, along with other similar "bump triggers" that have faced this same kind of regulation.

hell, m855 was selling north of $1/round when that regulation was in the proposal and review stage... and you couldn't barely get your hands on the stuff at that price - assuming you were desperate enough to purchase it at those inflated costs.
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Sithlord
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Re: Bump Stock ban

Post by Sithlord » Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:52 pm

Getting "closer" to final (it's not in the National Federal Registry.. Yet...)

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2018-0 ... pdf#page=1

Key points:
1) Only bump-fire devices are considered MGs. Using your thumb and belt-loop, for instance, are expressly allowed.

2) The DOJ / ATF disagrees that they are not allowed to redefine terms stated in law, as the AG has directed the ATF to develop rules which are in compliance with the stated laws. This is seen as a 'rule' change, not a 'law change'.

3) No amnesty or registration period is deemed necessary; therefore, current possessors of bump-stock-type devices will be obligated to dispose of those devices (their words!). Pretty clear violation of 5th Amendment. Since they are reclassifying an accessory to a firearm, this is not 'contraband'. Imagine if they reclassified (eg) a nail gun as a firearm. Also, this reclassification HAS occurred before (eg, Street Sweeper shotguns => Destructive Device), and they required registration of the devices by the owners.

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Re: Bump Stock ban

Post by rlandry6 » Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:52 pm

While I see no useful purpose for these and would probably never own one, even as a novelty, I support anyone's right to own one that is legally eligible to own a firearm.
While this ruling, if allowed to stand, affects a very small percentage or gun owners it is, and should be considered, the first bite of the elephant. We have already seen what is happening in Kalifornia and that state is lost and will probably never recover politically. As for as the poor souls living in Liberal controlled states, I feel for them, however, that bed has been a long time in the making and is not likely to be unraveled, at least in our lifetime.

I'm curious if there have been any court challenges to this so far.
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