Does this forum stifle innovation? Do we drive out the new guy?

[dellet]

Kind of a personal rant because I spend so much time outside the box.

The early days of this forum were filled with posts about people trying new things. New powders, bullets and just generally pushing the limits. The last couple years it really has devolved into not much more than how to get an AR in 300 blackout to cycle. Not much new is going on or at least being shared.

One of the things holding the cartridge back is this forum. Over the years, very quietly, innovation was snubbed. The reason in my mind was basically political correctness. Safety was more important than development. That's good if you feel you need to treat people like 1st graders.

Every day there was and probably still are people coming to the forum and the typical introduction was "Hi I'm new to firearms, 300 Blackout and reloading. Can someone give me a load to start with. I have a table spoon, some bullets I found at a garage sale and some primers that seem too big for the hole in bottom of the brass. Can I use the primers if I first squeeze them with pliers to make them fit? and How many tablespoons of Hercules would work good with this bullet for a subsonic load?"

Members here took a "protect the newbie attitude", which is good, to a point, but it stifles innovation.

There is enough knowledge here and it has been proven time and time again people are willing to call out dangerous practices. Members here have had no problems driving out people who repeatedly posted garbage data.

Please don't take this the wrong way. I absolutely want people to feel that they can come here for a resource of safe, usable knowledge and be helped no matter what experience level they may or may not have. Questions should be, and are answered, no matter how many times they have been asked with respect all the time.

What I am saying is that too many times I find myself, and I hear it from others also, fun things do not get posted and discussed, for the simple reason some random person on the internet might find it and blow themselves up.

Now we have a semi new guy with some clear knowledge of loading and shooting who calls out a more senior member with this:

REALLY......
I did not know this. I'll venture most sites have new members all the time... They don't know this either... I posted to HELP... I always search the previous posts to see if info was previously recorded.. So one can surmise I did not see this visited recently.

From the earliest posts, you could see many of you guys DONT want new info. At least the "frequent posters" dont. This attitude is fairly common across the web, folks just want posts from those within the "click" and either never comment on another's post. They push them out with negative comments such as these. I have noticed this here for some time, just not first hand... until this post. In reading this thread you find allot of negative comments from closed minds of inexperienced shooters. Usually the topic of a posting is "pwned" by the orig poster... ME. I know about the neg aspects of going off topic and folks not liking it. But as this is my thread, I can "steer it" where I like.

Sadly if this is the impression that new guys with knowledge get, it does the advancement of the capabilities of the cartridge just as much damage.

We've got a problem on this forum.

New guys don't want to use the search function and there is a general attitude of entitlement of knowledge with very little thanks given in return. Average post count is about five. Get the gun running, get a load and get down the road.

Old guys think that their way is the only way. Sometimes it is, sometimes not. Generally tho those opinions, are based in experience acquired through failure and the desire is to save someone else the trouble.

Those are my thoughts. Would love to hear others positive and negative.

Right now, I thought it might be a good time for a general knock down drag out family fight, that can clear the air. Then we can all get back to enjoying the cartridge and pushing the limits.

This forum has spun it's wheels for a couple years now. I'd like to see it get some traction. I'm tired of hearing what the cartridge can't do, I do enjoy proving people wrong about it tho.

If the rain quits today, I hope to see if I can hit 2200 fps with a Berger 175 OTM I'd share the load but some jackass might try it and get hurt, so I'll keep it to myself

[Oldphart]

Short answer, yes.

Longer answer--- most people here are most eager to help the new people but there is always going to be someone who is rude and probably they don't mean to be. And I think some newbies are timid!

Phil

[TMD]

I know my .02 cents ain't worth much but I'll add it anyways. I've been on this forum for about 4 years now and have to say, overall I think we (forum members) and the public in general know way more about the .300bo, its capabilities and limitations then we ever have. This forum and its members had a great role in it as well but........as a single focused forum you can only achieve so much. Outside of new bullets or powders there's only so much more we can learn about the cartridge.
Now as far as members go on here. Lots of old timers and some newbies due take some of the ribbing to the edge. Not that its a bad thing either because on some other forums moderators act like communist and shut down threads that are just getting started because they feel its unnecessary or inappropriate. Thankfully we don't have that issue here. Now to new members and first post. Most seem genuine and the members here do the best to help them but lately there seems to be more and more trolls and one post wonders who come on for one of three specific reasons, to bash a product because it wasn't what they expected, sell something, or to pimp their own product acting like their a third party giving glowing reviews. And of course there are a few that after reading their post you think to yourself that that person shouldn't even play with a slingshot.

[SwampDog_13]

As a newer member with a higher than average 5 posts, yet still green behind the ears, I have yet to personally experience any feeling of unwelcome. I have yet to hit my innovative stride so to speak because I'm still tracking down the same paths that you and the multitude of much more experienced members have already traveled. I could have jumped straight off the deep end and tried things no one else has documented publicly but I still need to run into the more tame problems myself to learn.

There are almost literally metric crap loads of data to dig through on this forum, some great and some I wouldn't use to light my burn pile on my back 40. I imagine some of our other new users are not the most forum experienced and as like most forums, the search function on the site itself leaves ALOT to be desired. Maybe we can sticky the google custom search feature into the new members forum as a "must look" before they can post in the technical forums.

As far as the quoted post in the OP, I think we can tack that up as a misunderstanding. I didn't read that as an attack for doing something that had been done but a nudge for the OP to continue on his track for pursuing his original idea.

[Sig220]

Every board I post to seems to have a "cadre" of those who will "belittle" or "dismiss" post because they have no "history"/"knowledge" of the poster.

I am a self admitted "older" reloader. I started in 1976 loading 38's on a lee "pocket" loader....yep, I have advanced but I am not a free blown "progressive" loader. I still use a Dillon 450 as a single stage because I like the control I have when loading single stage, so my other presses get more use being they are more simplistic. I don't often post my "edge" loads on any public forums because I don't want a "newby" to blow up his gun with a load that I found safe in my gun. I don't know if I ever will.....the "cadre" will say its a misprint/mistype because they ran into pressure signs below my load or something to that effect.

I often just skip over posts without responding of where a "newby" posts something that could be answered by previous posts if they had only looked. I believe it to be a "generational" thing where they want the info without putting out any effort to look or research the topic. I don't want to use my time for special "snowflakes". How many threads do we need on whether CCI 400 primers will work in 300BO?

I do communicate by PM or email with other shooters about loads and mutual interests. I gained contact with these "other shooters" by boards such as this, so I am grateful.

After reading through my post, hell I may be part of this "cadre" I speak of, but have not "belittled" any member to my knowledge. If anyone feels that I have, I would encourage you to let me know In the meantime, I am going shooting!!

Shoot safe and have fun!!

TMD, I have had the same feelings about some new posters not qualifying to use a slingshot....glad to see I am not alone!

[dellet]

There's lot's of little things that always add up in things like this.

A good example of things going wrong from the beginning is when something like, " what's the best barrel length for me" and nothing else. Just because there is no such thing as a stupid question, does not mean that the question can not be asked stupidly. Sometimes members will take the time to draw out the information needed to help, sometimes it all goes south and the person asking the question gets offended.

You see all the time, a question gets asked and answered. The OP gets his feelings hurt because it was not the answer he was looking for, but actually the answer to the question that was asked. Problem being the question was worded wrong.

The search function that is part of the forum sucks. That is part of the problem. But a lot mileage could be gained by people wanting information if the question was phrased different. There is a big difference when people ask "I'm new here, where can I find load data for xxx?". Instead of I need load data. I can only speak for myself, but I know others who have the same opinion, I like to help people learn or learn something myself. I'm not as excited about giving away answers.

I think if more people asked "how do I work up a load for a 125 SST"?, or "what powders are you using for a 110 subsonic Maker bullet in an AR", a lot more innovation and information would be shared.

If more people knew how to work up a load, more people could recognize what is safe.

Seeking and sharing knowledge is what a forum like this is all about. Randomly demanding answers, or just giving them, really accomplishes very little. Short term fix for a long term problem.

[TreeTopFlier]

Kind of a personal rant because I spend so much time outside the box.

The early days of this forum were filled with posts about people trying new things. New powders, bullets and just generally pushing the limits. The last couple years it really has devolved into not much more than how to get an AR in 300 blackout to cycle. Not much new is going on or at least being shared.

One of the things holding the cartridge back is this forum. Over the years, very quietly, innovation was snubbed. The reason in my mind was basically political correctness. Safety was more important than development. That's good if you feel you need to treat people like 1st graders.

Every day there was and probably still are people coming to the forum and the typical introduction was "Hi I'm new to firearms, 300 Blackout and reloading. Can someone give me a load to start with. I have a table spoon, some bullets I found at a garage sale and some primers that seem too big for the hole in bottom of the brass. Can I use the primers if I first squeeze them with pliers to make them fit? and How many tablespoons of Hercules would work good with this bullet for a subsonic load?"

Members here took a "protect the newbie attitude", which is good, to a point, but it stifles innovation.

There is enough knowledge here and it has been proven time and time again people are willing to call out dangerous practices. Members here have had no problems driving out people who repeatedly posted garbage data.

Please don't take this the wrong way. I absolutely want people to feel that they can come here for a resource of safe, usable knowledge and be helped no matter what experience level they may or may not have. Questions should be, and are answered, no matter how many times they have been asked with respect all the time.

What I am saying is that too many times I find myself, and I hear it from others also, fun things do not get posted and discussed, for the simple reason some random person on the internet might find it and blow themselves up.

Now we have a semi new guy with some clear knowledge of loading and shooting who calls out a more senior member with this:

REALLY......
I did not know this. I'll venture most sites have new members all the time... They don't know this either... I posted to HELP... I always search the previous posts to see if info was previously recorded.. So one can surmise I did not see this visited recently.

From the earliest posts, you could see many of you guys DONT want new info. At least the "frequent posters" dont. This attitude is fairly common across the web, folks just want posts from those within the "click" and either never comment on another's post. They push them out with negative comments such as these. I have noticed this here for some time, just not first hand... until this post. In reading this thread you find allot of negative comments from closed minds of inexperienced shooters. Usually the topic of a posting is "pwned" by the orig poster... ME. I know about the neg aspects of going off topic and folks not liking it. But as this is my thread, I can "steer it" where I like.

Sadly if this is the impression that new guys with knowledge get, it does the advancement of the capabilities of the cartridge just as much damage.

We've got a problem on this forum.

New guys don't want to use the search function and there is a general attitude of entitlement of knowledge with very little thanks given in return. Average post count is about five. Get the gun running, get a load and get down the road.

Old guys think that their way is the only way. Sometimes it is, sometimes not. Generally tho those opinions, are based in experience acquired through failure and the desire is to save someone else the trouble.

Those are my thoughts. Would love to hear others positive and negative.

Right now, I thought it might be a good time for a general knock down drag out family fight, that can clear the air. Then we can all get back to enjoying the cartridge and pushing the limits.

This forum has spun it's wheels for a couple years now. I'd like to see it get some traction. I'm tired of hearing what the cartridge can't do, I do enjoy proving people wrong about it tho.

If the rain quits today, I hope to see if I can hit 2200 fps with a Berger 175 OTM I'd share the load but some jackass might try it and get hurt, so I'll keep it to myself

I agree with the sentiment in your post. I feel some folks have been run off in the past and that's a mistake. Speaking for myself, I enjoy the cultural aspects of the board in addition to the cartridge specific topics...politics, humor, etc.
I personally try to be respectful of other opinions even when I disagree...if any of you see me violate that, feel free to call me out then and there in the thread or in a PM.

Dellet, if you get 2200fps out of 175 grainer you have to post a picture of that brass I'd be shooting that with my non dominant hand

[drayks]

I like coming to this forum for the info, knowing that I can ask a complicated question or just get opinions without being derided. Also, the occasional pictures of REBEL in his native environment are pushing the proprietary limits. Most of the time it is grown-up talk and not "mine is bigger than yours". Dellet, I can understand your frustration, but this is still the BEST forum I follow regularly, Keep up the good work guys. drayks

[Jethro99]

I come to the site for the info. I lurked for months before I built my first BLK, but used all that info to do it right. Both my guns (10.5", SBR & 16" car) run great, BECAUSE I took the time to read this forum. The load info is priceless, but you have to read it and understand it also. I think the people that come on here and ask "what barrel, upper, BCG, mag, ammo THEY should use/get" just really need to read back in the forum, the good stuff is stickied for a reason.
I know I don't have a lot of posts, but that's because all the info I have, I got off here from you guys, so it's already here somewhere.

[hardcase]

I agree with Dellet.

There was a guy (I assume a guy) with the handle Red Neck something or the other that was here a few weeks ago and shot down after two or three posts. I haven't seen him/her back sense.

There is another forum that deals with a caliber of a big bore AR. There are a few know-it-alls there that ruined the forum for me. I've never been back and was so discouraged, I decided to not build an AR of that caliber.