Disagree there - - IMO, ammo performance becomes progressively worse as distance increases (i.e. never a linear situation).300Blk wrote:There is no centerfire rifle ammo that has better MOA at 50 yards than 100.
300 Blackout Subsonic accuracy a joke???
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- Silent Operator
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Re: 300 Blackout Subsonic accuracy a joke???
Re: 300 Blackout Subsonic accuracy a joke???
" Short barrels, light weight, very poor stocks for proper head placement, and crappy hand holds up front. "
Of the above listed , cheek weld/consistsnt head position is the only one that is a real factor , the rest are MYTHS.
Amax is not world renowned for sub sonic accuracy and bitching about them because your reloads are inconsistent is like saying airplanes are usless because the one you built from a kit won't fly.
Of the above listed , cheek weld/consistsnt head position is the only one that is a real factor , the rest are MYTHS.
Amax is not world renowned for sub sonic accuracy and bitching about them because your reloads are inconsistent is like saying airplanes are usless because the one you built from a kit won't fly.
Re: 300 Blackout Subsonic accuracy a joke???
AccuracyARs wrote:Disagree there - - IMO, ammo performance becomes progressively worse as distance increases (i.e. never a linear situation).300Blk wrote:There is no centerfire rifle ammo that has better MOA at 50 yards than 100.
Actually you both are correct. It is all in the math: (Distance to target in yards) / (100) = inches per MOA at that distance. The greater the distance, the greater the spread, but it is still the same MOA.
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Re: 300 Blackout Subsonic accuracy a joke???
-Thanks for posting the pics guys. Good shooting. If you get a chance please shoot some at 100 yards next time.
-As for my reloads being the issue, that's why I included Hornady factory loads and Gemtech factory loads.
-As for my reloads being the issue, that's why I included Hornady factory loads and Gemtech factory loads.
Re: 300 Blackout Subsonic accuracy a joke???
FWIW,
The best subsonic accuracy will be had with the 220 SMK or the 200 Grain Lapua B416.
1 MOA or better @ 100 yards is totally doable.
It may also be of interest to you, chasing accuracy with the LMT MRP in 300 BLK is a fairly common thing.
For whatever reason, a lot of folks have trouble getting them to shoot 1 MOA or better.
(I'm in the process of working on one of my shooting partner's 300 BLK LMT MRP that has the same issue.)
His LMT MRP will put three through the same hole at 100 yards and then have two fliers about 1.5" outside of the main group.
My 10" Noveske does not have a problem consistently shooting sub MOA with quality ammunition.
The best subsonic accuracy will be had with the 220 SMK or the 200 Grain Lapua B416.
1 MOA or better @ 100 yards is totally doable.
It may also be of interest to you, chasing accuracy with the LMT MRP in 300 BLK is a fairly common thing.
For whatever reason, a lot of folks have trouble getting them to shoot 1 MOA or better.
(I'm in the process of working on one of my shooting partner's 300 BLK LMT MRP that has the same issue.)
His LMT MRP will put three through the same hole at 100 yards and then have two fliers about 1.5" outside of the main group.
My 10" Noveske does not have a problem consistently shooting sub MOA with quality ammunition.
"Don't tell fish stories where the people know you; but particularly,
don't tell them where they know the fish."
--Mark Twain
don't tell them where they know the fish."
--Mark Twain
Re: 300 Blackout Subsonic accuracy a joke???
OP please update here any new info provided on the m4carbine thread here too.
NRA Chief Range Safety Officer
NRA pistol, rifle, shotgun, Refuse to be a Victim
NRA Home Firearms Safety, Personal Protection in the Home
Full time instructor with Florida Firearms Training
NRA pistol, rifle, shotgun, Refuse to be a Victim
NRA Home Firearms Safety, Personal Protection in the Home
Full time instructor with Florida Firearms Training
Re: 300 Blackout Subsonic accuracy a joke???
I can post pictures of the targets when I get home I suppose (if I kept them, not certain I did) but here is the data that I previously posted in the Handloading section of five shot groups (no adjustment for fliers) shot at 100 yards in good conditions at 87F and relative calm winds.Kill By Number wrote:You see everywhere people claiming 1" groups all day at 100 yards but I have not found a load that will come close. Searching online I've found no 10 shot group pics at 100 yards. Even with whole forums dedicated to 300 blk I found no solid data. I have no trouble getting it to group at 50 yards but it spreads way out past that. I've seen some good supersonic groups but I'd like to see AR based 300 blk subsonic testing. PLEASE POST HERE ONLY PICTURES OF 10 shot groups or five 5 shot groups with NO adjustments for fliers. I don't care what you heard, just show me on paper AT 100 YARDS please. Tell us what rifle and ammo and any other pertinant info.
Also, the title of this thread is just to get you to read it. I do believe there are accurate 300 blk subsonic setups out there, I would just like to see some on paper and know how they are setup and what ammo.
My setup is a LMT 10.5" 300 blackout in a MRP platform with AAC SDN-6 silencer. Ammo tried Hornady 300 whisper, Gemtech 300 blk, Handloads with 208 Amax bullet and various powders EXCEPT Accurate 1680 which I do not have but have heard good things about.
Thanks in advance.
Nosler CC 220g - CCI41 - RE7- 10.8 grains - 12 SD - 999 fps - 1.13 MOA
Nosler CC 220g - CCI41 - RE7- 11.0 grains - 10 SD - 1,015 fps - 1.14 MOA
Horn A-MAX 208g - CCI41 - RE7- 11.0 grains - 12 SD - 1,076 fps - 1.08 MOA
I am using the 9" AAC barrel (7.62-SDN suppressor). I could load up more I imagine and get some five shot groups at an inch I imagine. I loaded these on my XL 650.
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Re: 300 Blackout Subsonic accuracy a joke???
Thanks Silent But Deadly, that is the kind of thing I would like to see. If you can find the pics please post them and I will keep M4Carbine updated the same as here with any new info. I have not tried Reloader 7 for powder yet. After I tryout the factory Silencerco and Black Hills loads I'll have to give it a try.
Re: 300 Blackout Subsonic accuracy a joke???
100 yard groups must be a well guarded secret. We will dodge the question with 50 yard results. If we actually showed you how great subs were at 100 yards everyone would be buying up all of our powder and rifles. We don't want that now do we?
Re: 300 Blackout Subsonic accuracy a joke???
I have not shot my Blackout ARs as much as my .223/5.56 uppers, but I doubt I will ever be able to shoot MOA at 100 yards with my Blackout uppers, whether that be subsonic or supersonic. I may yet eat those words, but the grouping is just not happening for me. I think I may achieve it eventually for supersonic reloads, but I don't think I will ever do it with subsonic ammo. I have supersonic ammo I spent some time reloading that I need to try. I am hoping to see more positive results once I have the time to test it.
I just don't think the Blackout is as inherently accurate as other cartridges. At least, not as forgiving with reloads. I'm not saying that to upset anyone, it's just my opinion based on my luck with the cartridge. I know others have had great success with it. I'm a novice more or less to reloading and I have shot my reloads in my 5.56/.223 uppers at 100 yards that often look like one hole. That's not every group, and that does not apply to every upper, but most of my groups are close to MOA or less if I am shooting my best. I think those uppers are outshooting me and I am the limiting factor. I don't feel like my Blackout uppers are doing the same.
With that said, it is fun to shoot the Blackout subsonic suppressed, and it is accurate enough for my needs at 50 yards.
I just don't think the Blackout is as inherently accurate as other cartridges. At least, not as forgiving with reloads. I'm not saying that to upset anyone, it's just my opinion based on my luck with the cartridge. I know others have had great success with it. I'm a novice more or less to reloading and I have shot my reloads in my 5.56/.223 uppers at 100 yards that often look like one hole. That's not every group, and that does not apply to every upper, but most of my groups are close to MOA or less if I am shooting my best. I think those uppers are outshooting me and I am the limiting factor. I don't feel like my Blackout uppers are doing the same.
With that said, it is fun to shoot the Blackout subsonic suppressed, and it is accurate enough for my needs at 50 yards.
300BLK AR-15 with 10.5" Noveske barrel (1:7 pistol length gas)
300BLK 16" AAC Handi Rifle (1:7 twist)
300BLK 16" AR-15 with 16" PSA FN barrel upper (1:8 pistol length gas)
300BLK 16" AAC Handi Rifle (1:7 twist)
300BLK 16" AR-15 with 16" PSA FN barrel upper (1:8 pistol length gas)
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