laser engraving touch up gone wrong

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bangbangping
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Re: laser engraving touch up gone wrong

Post by bangbangping » Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:52 am

voip-1 wrote: I would love to know if your friend who lost his house over an SBR actually tried to comply with the law as I am trying to do or was simply ignorant of it (unregistered SBR or didn't know he had an SBR, had other Infractions involved, etc) In my experience law enforcement only comes down like a hammer when there is a pretty good reason to do so.
Just to be clear, I didn't say he was my friend. :mrgreen: Also to be clear, you weren't trying to comply with the law. Or rather you did try but failed, and wanted to convince yourself that's good enough. Either way, at this point you're not in compliance and you're aware of that fact. But about my "friend." He was ignorant. And stupid. He had an old shotgun with a damaged barrel and cut it off, either not knowing it was illegal or not thinking it was a big deal, I'm not sure which. But he took it out to shoot it, stopped by a bar on the way home (the really stupid part) and got pulled over leaving the bar. So yeah, if you don't do stupid things your odds of success go way up. But I've also known some stupid and/or aggressive local cops as well as a few feds through the years, and once they're called in it often doesn't matter if you "tried to comply" with the law. You either did or you didn't, and they often don't give a rat's ass what your intentions were or how nice a guy you are.
Ultimately what you are arguing is that there is even a .001% chance of something bad happening, even if that was being detained for a short while then you would personally junk the lower. Fair enough and again that is your propensity for risk. I take the occasional risk in life and would put the "I didn't engrave my NFA item deeply enough" pretty low on the list. Lower than you probably.
Not exactly. My point was that local cops sometimes don't know federal laws, think all SBRs are illegal, and detention is a possibility regardless. The difference is what happens after that, and NFA laws can be taken very seriously.
You made your point quite well without having to be an ass about it.
Sorry, I didn't intend to be an ass. As I mentioned earlier, I found myself in exactly the same position as you a while back. It sucks, to be sure. There is definitely a letdown when you realize it's not right, and a temptation to say "screw it, that's good enough." Glad you made the decision to have it redone, and I'm pretty sure you will be, too. It's pretty cool when you finally get it all put together and go shoot something that not everyone has. Even better when it's done correctly and you know you're 100% in the right.

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mostholycerebus
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Re: laser engraving touch up gone wrong

Post by mostholycerebus » Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:33 am

Last week we had a local guy get pulled over for DUI. He had an AR pistol in his backseat, legal here with a CCW permit. Cops had him blow and he was clean, but they werent sure of the AR. So, they locked him up and took it. First they said it was really a rifle, then when they got clarification they got pissed about the waste of time and claimed the law exempted 'handguns' not 'pistols'. Charges were finally dropped, but guy still spent a night in jail, wasted thousands on a lawyer, and still doesnt have his gun back.

If cops are the least bit unsure, or pissed off, they will just charge you and lock you up, let the system handle it. At best you are out a night in jail and money on a lawyer, probably dont get the gun back. At worst, ATF decides to make an example of you and you get a few years in prison.

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Re: laser engraving touch up gone wrong

Post by v6pwr » Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:05 pm

RDA wrote:
v6pwr wrote:Voip, have you considered seeing if the original place can redo it? If they still have the setup on the computer they can try running it through again. It might be the type of laser they have and it might not be strong enough but running multiple passes over it may work. It may take 10 passes, may even take 40 passes...but if they are willing to try on a test piece of aluminum to get it in the ballpark and see if it is deep enough. .003" isn't really that deep, about a couple sheets of paper...
No, a piece of office paper is typically about .003"-.004" (e.g., 20lb copier paper is .004"). One sheet is at least as thick as the engraving depth in question.
Ok, geez..gettin' all technical. I was just giving OP an idea of how thick .003" really is...one sheet, two sheets...meh :roll:

Another idea for you OP, if you were even thinking about changing the color of the lower, ie cerakote, then have the new engraving set deep, and then you can get it cerakote after and the original etching will go bye-bye :mrgreen: But, I'm sure Ident can fix the booboo. It's like taking a pic of the etching (or if they have the stencil/file it will come out cleaner) and scan it into the computer and set the laser to engrave over the original.
Well, at least now you know not to go to any etching/engraving place without first checking to see if they've done such tasks or can get it done to your requirements...lesson learned, I hope.

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Re: laser engraving touch up gone wrong

Post by voip-1 » Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:12 pm

v6pwr wrote:
RDA wrote:
v6pwr wrote:Voip, have you considered seeing if the original place can redo it? If they still have the setup on the computer they can try running it through again. It might be the type of laser they have and it might not be strong enough but running multiple passes over it may work. It may take 10 passes, may even take 40 passes...but if they are willing to try on a test piece of aluminum to get it in the ballpark and see if it is deep enough. .003" isn't really that deep, about a couple sheets of paper...
No, a piece of office paper is typically about .003"-.004" (e.g., 20lb copier paper is .004"). One sheet is at least as thick as the engraving depth in question.
Ok, geez..gettin' all technical. I was just giving OP an idea of how thick .003" really is...one sheet, two sheets...meh :roll:

Another idea for you OP, if you were even thinking about changing the color of the lower, ie cerakote, then have the new engraving set deep, and then you can get it cerakote after and the original etching will go bye-bye :mrgreen: But, I'm sure Ident can fix the booboo. It's like taking a pic of the etching (or if they have the stencil/file it will come out cleaner) and scan it into the computer and set the laser to engrave over the original.
Well, at least now you know not to go to any etching/engraving place without first checking to see if they've done such tasks or can get it done to your requirements...lesson learned, I hope.
Lesson very much learned. I shipped out to Ident today. They do not re-engrave over original because high probability that it will not turn out well. I asked them to engrave on front of magwell or under trigger guard area if possible or if not to try for the area near the trigger pins.

Worst case they engrave near the boo boo.

They continue to insist that it is absolutely no problem to have the info engraved more than once and they do this all the time, even for the ATF themselves.

In any event if there is a good chance of success I will just try to paint over the bad engraving as it is not at all deep. Chalkboard Krylon was recommended to me but open to other ideas also. I am guessing I would just tape off that magwell area and repaint the entire area so that it doesn't look like crap.

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Dolomite_Supafly
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Re: laser engraving touch up gone wrong

Post by Dolomite_Supafly » Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:13 pm

Paper thickness depends on the paper. I know because I use paper circles that I cut out using a hole punch to set headspace on guns. Well I don't use it to set headspace because headspace on my bolt guns is ALWAYS zero. I use the circles to verify headspace is in fact zero.

Sheets of paper from Shotgun news runs .0015" and certain resume paper runs .006". And I have some resume paper that is .009" thick.

I expect the bolt to close with resistance on a single .00015" circle. I use the .006" to verify the headspace and the bolt should not close at all on it. Or I use two .0015" circles instead of the .006". The bolt should not close on the two .0015" circles on my bolt guns.

Using little paper circles is the easiest way for me to set headspace on a bunch of different bolt guns. I do not need, or use, headspace gauges. I use brass that has been sized on my equipment as the headspace gauge. If I plan on shooting factory ammo I will just loosen the barrel, screw it down onto a loaded round and lock the barrel in place.

The problem with headspace is from having too loose, not too tight.
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v6pwr
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Re: laser engraving touch up gone wrong

Post by v6pwr » Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:31 am

Voip, if you plan to just tape off the magwell to only paint the etched area, it (the new painted area) probably won't blend well with the surrounding anodized finish; once tape is removed and you will see the difference in color/hue/gloss of where the new paint is and the original anodized finish is. You might as well paint the entire lower for uniformity...cerakote for a durable, uniform finish. Process usually involves light media-blast to remove some anodizing and prep surface for cerakote to bond (this also removes that original etching that only appears to be at the anodized coating surface). There are many certified cerakote places that does it on the cheap. I remember seeing on arfcom there's two places that offer great service and pricing..I'll try to find the names of them if you are interested in going the cerakote route.
On a billet lower that I know you like dearly, you can't really skimp. You will keep having thoughts in the back of your mind if you do.

voip-1
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Re: laser engraving touch up gone wrong

Post by voip-1 » Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:38 pm

Unfortunately by the time I get it back from ident I will probably have ATF approval and then shipping it around becomes a chore. Not to mention I am happy with the finish it already has and wouldn't want to shell out even more cash to get it refinished when I am trying to put cash towards the silencer and optic I want to go with it.

I will probably jus black up the original engraving as much as possible with aluma-Hyde or so etching similar and leave it as it is if spray painting it is going to result in an obvious blemish.

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Re: laser engraving touch up gone wrong

Post by Dolomite_Supafly » Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:46 pm

You could also contact the ATF and ask them to put a hold on the process until it is engraved.
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Re: laser engraving touch up gone wrong

Post by BadKarmaZeroSix » Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:06 pm

My cerakote was done in 10 days, and it wasnt a simple color, it was way more complex...they have a 21-day guarantee, and love their work...just google Dynamic Finishes...excellent service and reasonable pricing
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Re: laser engraving touch up gone wrong

Post by voip-1 » Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:28 pm

OK, time to come nearly full circle on this.

I just got the piece back from Ident in TX and you can see from the photo below that they did a good job. Ident insists that there is zero problem in having the firearm marked in multiple locations as long as the info matches, but I am investigating with a local guy who does cerakoating what he might be able to do with it.

I might also simply take the recommendation to tape it off and hit it with some spray paint. It won't take much to obliterate the bad "engraving" on the mag well.

Image

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