zpat wrote:It feels like you (and others) are getting very defensive about my comments/tests, so I'm sorry for whatever I said that has made it feel like I'm trying to pick the 300blk apart. Remember, I'm a fan, not a nay sayer and I've invested already quite a bit in this platform. What I'm trying to better understand is how will 300blk do against barriers in general--I could really care less about "plate", unless it is a reinforced door, etc. I did it as a way to compare rounds' penetration capabilities with a material that is very objective vs. concrete blocks that will be dramatically different based upon where they are hit (like Vickers did). Is the steel test I did representative of barriers in general, or is it flawed somehow as a representative of other barriers out in the real world? Is the test Vickers did representative? Are there other 300blk rounds coming down the pipe that will be better against barriers (and also be BB I hope), that aren't going to be illegal for civilians? Assuming the barnes vortx is the leading BB and BP round currently, what depths of barriers can a user reasonably expect it to be able to penetrate of: wood, glass, aluminum, steel, dry wall, etc.? I know that if it does penetrate, it will hold together and expand well, but what I need to know first of all is will it actually get through the barrier? I'd imagine these are all questions any serious user of this round would want to know.. and if not, well I sure as hell do as a user for SD/HD. I'd really like to know in advance that when I'm shooting at a bad guy behind a solid oak door in my home, is he going to be hit or is he going to just laugh at me? My secondary concern is if the damn round expanded or held together.
Paragraphs make things much easier to read. It is best to place a newline when the subject changes.
"It feels like you (and others) are getting very defensive about my comments/tests"
I think we feel like you are asking the wrong question as virtually no one cares about shooting steel plates. I don't mind that 300 BLK cannot penetrate steel plate as well as 5.56mm. When one designs a bullet, they pick things they want it to do well. No one in the government has ever expressed an interest in penetrating steel plate or to make the bullet better for that. The head of ballistics for a major federal agency, however, told me that they had no desire for an AP bullet and they only wanted barrier blind bullets. Had we designed the bullets to be better on steel plate, they would be less barrier blind.
"What I'm trying to better understand is how will 300blk do against barriers in general--I could really care less about "plate", unless it is a reinforced door, etc."
I posted that image of the FBI barrier test results. You can use that to see how 300 BLK does against barriers in general. It does better than the best 5.56mm.
" Is the steel test I did representative of barriers in general, or is it flawed somehow as a representative of other barriers out in the real world? "
It is only representative of steel plate. Someone even showed that 300 BLK *subsonic* would shoot through a utility pole:
viewtopic.php?f=128&t=65654
"Are there other 300blk rounds coming down the pipe that will be better against barriers (and also be BB I hope), that aren't going to be illegal for civilians?"
The Barnes 300 BLK is already more barrier blind than the best 5.56mm. You seem to be asking about AP ammunition - designed to penetrate steel plate. I don't know of any AP 300 BLK ammunition being in the works - and that is only because no one cares about AP ammunition for one good reason - there is no such thing as a barrier blind AP round that has controlled penetration - and barrier blind with controlled penetration is what people want.
"Assuming the barnes vortx is the leading BB and BP round currently, what depths of barriers can a user reasonably expect it to be able to penetrate of: wood, glass, aluminum, steel, dry wall, etc.?"
There is no govt agency that buys bullets that way, unless it is AP ammunition, so no one optimizes bullets for that, except for AP ammunition.
"will it actually get through the barrier"
Barrier testing is by FBI protocol and specifies drywall, plywood, auto glass, and car door. These are a certain thickness, and the test is how much bare gel the bullet penetrates after the barrier - not how thick a barrier it will go through. Thickness testing is only for AP ammunition.
"I'd imagine these are all questions any serious user of this round would want to know.. "
I have never seen anyone want to know maximum barrier thickness, except related to AP ammunition. Barrier blind ammunition is never specified that way.
"I'd really like to know in advance that when I'm shooting at a bad guy behind a solid oak door in my home, is he going to be hit or is he going to just laugh at me? "
There is no wood door it won't go through. It will be stopped by steel plate or concrete / stone / brick.