Super Sonic Ammo - What is really going on here ???

Discussion about rifles in 300 AAC BLACKOUT (7.62x35mm), hosted by the creator of the cartridge.

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rob_s
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Re: Super Sonic Ammo - What is really going on here ???

Post by rob_s » Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:10 am

I've noticed that the group of disgruntled 300 BLK early-adopters is growing. From the handloader/wildcat/tinkerer/bench-shooting crowd there doesn't seem to be much disappointment as many of them seem to have bought as just another project to futz around with.

Some people that bought it because they had some perceived use for the caliber are probably never going to be happy with it though. It's never going to be as cheap as XM193 or steel-cased 5.56, even if an equivalent load was available. And I'm not sure why you'd want it to be. In my limited use of the 300 BLK I have found the recoil of the supersonic 123 to be significantly greater than that of the subsonic, and both recoil more at the shoulder than 5.56. This leave the conclusion of why you would use 300 BLK at all if you do not have a use for the increased impact downrange, and carboard and steel don't care. It *may* have some functionality for reaching major power factor in 3-gun but the 3-gun world is so ruled by the outlaw matches that there are maybe 2-3 major 3-gun matches a year where that would matter, and people are winning those now with 5.56 loads.

300 BLK has two potential benefits that I see: increased impact downrange and reliably cycling subsonic (and the best possible, a combination of the two). If you do not have one or both of these needs it's going to really be no better than a niche round or a wildcat round, even with mass production to back it. My personal interest in the caliber lies in the combination of the two for hogs and potentially as an HD gun that requires zero proprietary parts outside a barrel that I would never wear out for either purpose. I had started down the path of 6.x for those uses but it lacks the suppressed advantage and the increased number of proprietary parts (mags and bolt) make the 300 BLK a better choice.

I do understand, regardless of application or reason for initial purchase, the frustration with ammunition availability. I keep hearing rumblings about remanufactured ammo from 5.56 cases but haven't seen it pop up on the market yet, and I'm anxious to see the new factory Remington supersonic loading, albeit less anxious about shooting vast quantities of it after my experience with the increased recoil of the 123. Nothing unmanageable, but with the lower recoiling 5.56 I find myself asking "why" when shooting paper and steel.
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Re: Super Sonic Ammo - What is really going on here ???

Post by 300Blk » Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:38 am

300 AAC BLACKOUT has more recoil than 5.56mm. The recoil is like 7.62x39mm.

40 S&W has more recoil than 9mm. Same deal, except you don't give up magazine capacity with 300 AAC BLACKOUT.

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Re: Super Sonic Ammo - What is really going on here ???

Post by Kublah » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:17 am

Well my interest is for home defense, hunting, plinking and all around fun. I had my eye on the 300 whisper for a long time, but I just did not like the idea of a proprietary round and all the issues associated with that. A good quality barrel and factory defensive rounds were not cheap. The reloading part was the only thing that seemed inexpensive with the 300 whisper. Although reloading information was somewhat sketchy as much of the data was for bolt action or contender rifles/pistols and not compatible with an AR mag. Robert and AAC have remedied most of these issues. Quality reloading information to come due to being a SAAMI spec. Multiple factory defensive and plinking rounds to come. And quality barrels from Aaron and AAC

For home defense, this is great round. Using an AAC 9" barrel makes the rifle quite compact and also the cartridge is optimized for this short barrel. Flinging a .308 diameter bullet at around 2200fps suits me rather well. Some may say .223 or .308win which are good choices too, but one seems a little light and the other seems a little heavy for the inside of a house. That could be just me. 6.8 would be a qualifying choice for this role too, but due to all of the factors listed in the rest of this post, it isnt as practical. (More expensive reloading/practice)

My state does not allow .223 for hunting, and I'd sure love to take out my ARs. I have plenty of 'regular' hunting rifles, but this will put a new twist on things. Also if expanding subsonic loads become available, that would be even more interesting. Some may say that the cartridge has more drop at longer ranges, but I do not live or hunt in an area where that is a factor where I would be pushing this cartridge, at least at supersonic speeds, to its limits.

Reloading the 300 blk is ridiculously cheap compared to 6.8/6.5/7.62x51 so this is an excellent plinking round. I can generally reload .223 for ~.15/round and .17/round for 300blk. Using cases I have prepared myself or ones prepared by Brads Warehouse has been quite nice and inexpensive. I still have yet to see a case have any issues after 8 reloads. Due to the fact that I rarely have to trim the cases, I'll be willing to bet that there is significantly less stress on the cases. This will keep costs low as I will keep cases longer provided I do not lose them. Using the .308 bullet is also quite excellent as there is a very wide choice of projectiles to choose from with tons of low cost options and also high performance options available.

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Re: Super Sonic Ammo - What is really going on here ???

Post by JasonAAC » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:35 am

Kublah wrote:Well my interest is for home defense, hunting, plinking and all around fun. I had my eye on the 300 whisper for a long time, but I just did not like the idea of a proprietary round and all the issues associated with that. A good quality barrel and factory defensive rounds were not cheap. The reloading part was the only thing that seemed inexpensive with the 300 whisper. Although reloading information was somewhat sketchy as much of the data was for bolt action or contender rifles/pistols and not compatible with an AR mag. Robert and AAC have remedied most of these issues. Quality reloading information to come due to being a SAAMI spec. Multiple factory defensive and plinking rounds to come. And quality barrels from Aaron and AAC

For home defense, this is great round. Using an AAC 9" barrel makes the rifle quite compact and also the cartridge is optimized for this short barrel. Flinging a .308 diameter bullet at around 2200fps suits me rather well. Some may say .223 or .308win which are good choices too, but one seems a little light and the other seems a little heavy for the inside of a house. That could be just me. 6.8 would be a qualifying choice for this role too, but due to all of the factors listed in the rest of this post, it isnt as practical. (More expensive reloading/practice)

My state does not allow .223 for hunting, and I'd sure love to take out my ARs. I have plenty of 'regular' hunting rifles, but this will put a new twist on things. Also if expanding subsonic loads become available, that would be even more interesting. Some may say that the cartridge has more drop at longer ranges, but I do not live or hunt in an area where that is a factor where I would be pushing this cartridge, at least at supersonic speeds, to its limits.

Reloading the 300 blk is ridiculously cheap compared to 6.8/6.5/7.62x51 so this is an excellent plinking round. I can generally reload .223 for ~.15/round and .17/round for 300blk. Using cases I have prepared myself or ones prepared by Brads Warehouse has been quite nice and inexpensive. I still have yet to see a case have any issues after 8 reloads. Due to the fact that I rarely have to trim the cases, I'll be willing to bet that there is significantly less stress on the cases. This will keep costs low as I will keep cases longer provided I do not lose them. Using the .308 bullet is also quite excellent as there is a very wide choice of projectiles to choose from with tons of low cost options and also high performance options available.
You've hit a lot of excellent points about 300 BLK
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Re: Super Sonic Ammo - What is really going on here ???

Post by rob_s » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:07 pm

silencertalk wrote:300 AAC BLACKOUT has more recoil than 5.56mm. The recoil is like 7.62x39mm.

40 S&W has more recoil than 9mm. Same deal, except you don't give up magazine capacity with 300 AAC BLACKOUT.
This is true.

Which is why for anything where impact down-range doesn't matter, one would be a fool to shoot .40 (not to mention the actual benefit of whatever increased impact is downrange is a .40 is debatable). Take away power-factor and you wouldn't see anyone in competitive shooting running anything other than 9mm.

The 300 BLK has, as you point out, the added benefit of not adversely impacting magazine capacity, as well as the reliably cycling subsonic which is a nice feature to have in some instances.
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Re: Super Sonic Ammo - What is really going on here ???

Post by 300Blk » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:11 pm

I carry 9mm these days. But if 40 had the same capacity as 9mm, then that would take away one of the major downsides of it.

As for why someone would shoot 40 at paper, it is so that you can train with what you carry.

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Re: Super Sonic Ammo - What is really going on here ???

Post by rob_s » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:18 pm

silencertalk wrote:As for why someone would shoot 40 at paper, it is so that you can train with what you carry.
Which, looking at the marco not the micro, would indicate that they have (at least a perceived) need for the downrange results.

Look, I'm not bagging on 300 BLK here, but even with the added benefits over other caliber-boosts like 6.x it is not for everyone.
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Re: Super Sonic Ammo - What is really going on here ???

Post by 300Blk » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:32 pm

I know it is not as good as 6.8 for longer-range hunting, but I think once the lower priced ammo is out, a lot of people are going to have to wonder if they really want to pay the difference.

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