Super Sonic Ammo - What is really going on here ???

Discussion about rifles in 300 AAC BLACKOUT (7.62x35mm), hosted by the creator of the cartridge.

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firefighter509
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Super Sonic Ammo - What is really going on here ???

Post by firefighter509 » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:05 pm

I brought this up once before, and and still waiting on this ammo. I was promised that this ammo would be out right quick and spent a shit ton of money on building uppers for this round.
Like the little AAC fan boy I once was... I bought into this and stayed away from the 6.8 which I was going to build as the main reason for going 300 blackout was cheap factory ammunition (under $1 a round) but after month's of waiting; Ammo prices have not lowered and Cheap "223/5.56 price tag" ammo has yet to surface!
SO I though I would post some things I have heard in my circle and see what is really going on here... I have been staying away from the boards as this is a subject that has been eating me up inside but I can wait no more!!!

1. Remington is not making any 300 Blackout Ammunition as they do not have the budget to produce the tooling needed to do so.
2. Hornady is in fact making this ammo under contract for Remington / AAC
3. So no 123gr / Supersonic ammo with a ".223/5.56 price tag" will be available for a long long time.

Which brings me to my point WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON HERE???

Old Thread :arrow: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewt ... 35#p680835

Sorry for the rant, but this information comes from some pretty reliable sources and I would for once like a honest answer here.

J
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Re: Super Sonic Ammo - What is really going on here ???

Post by Table Rock Arms » Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:30 am

I am not sure how it could ever be the same price as .223/556 ammo. The bullets are more than twice the weight which means the cost in raw materials for them would be more than twice as much. And everything has to do with volume. Until someone can produce brass in the volume that 223/556 is produced, then the brass will be more expensive as well.

Now, I think you could see reloaded ammo for prices closer to .223/556. I am looking at doing this my self but am a ways out on some equipment and I don't always have a ton of free time so it will take a while.

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firefighter509
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Re: Super Sonic Ammo - What is really going on here ???

Post by firefighter509 » Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:16 am

Table Rock Arms wrote:I am not sure how it could ever be the same price as .223/556 ammo. The bullets are more than twice the weight which means the cost in raw materials for them would be more than twice as much. And everything has to do with volume. Until someone can produce brass in the volume that 223/556 is produced, then the brass will be more expensive as well.

Now, I think you could see reloaded ammo for prices closer to .223/556. I am looking at doing this my self but am a ways out on some equipment and I don't always have a ton of free time so it will take a while.

Ryan

AAC Quoted .223 / 5.56 prices, now I can see the cost being a little more due to cost of material, But what are we expecting $20.00 a box 123gr.
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Re: Super Sonic Ammo - What is really going on here ???

Post by 300Blk » Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:37 am

The 123 grain ammo bullet was not as good as we thought it could be, so we decided to do a custom bullet rather than just use an AK-style bullet.

This required new tooling.

70% of the tooling is done, and soon we will have samples of the optimal bullet to try.

Once we approve it, then the low cost UMC supersonic will come out. This will be made by Remington, just as the subsonic ammo is made by Remington. It is kinda too bad that the delay happened right when Hornady came out with Whisper(R) ammo, as it will confuse some people into thinking they need to decide on a Whisper vs 300 BLK rifle. There is no decision - 300 AAC BLACKOUT is the SAAMI standard. You can shoot Hornady Whisper in your 300 AAC BLACKOUT rifle - but I don't see any companies other than SSK making Whisper guns for a few reasons:

1. There is a license fee.
2. It is not the standard.
3. You can't shoot full power 300 AAC BLACKOUT ammo in it without expecting increased pressure. It would be like shooting 5.56mm in a 223 gun - as 300 AAC BLACKOUT full power ammo is capable of higher velocity at any given pressure.

Remington committed in a big way - in fact - ordered two new big machines so as to triple brass capacity.

It seems like some higher-priced loads will beat it to market - specifically 125 grain Premiere Match and 125 grain AccuTip. Don't be discouraged - as the UMC is still coming out. I expect an MSRP of $12.99 and street prices lower (the subsonic is $21.99 MSRP and CheaperThanDirt has it for $18.50).

Then after that, Core-Lokt will come out. So there will be plenty of ammo choices.

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Re: Super Sonic Ammo - What is really going on here ???

Post by JasonAAC » Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:20 am

firefighter509 wrote:I brought this up once before, and and still waiting on this ammo. I was promised that this ammo would be out right quick and spent a shit ton of money on building uppers for this round.
Like the little AAC fan boy I once was... I bought into this and stayed away from the 6.8 which I was going to build as the main reason for going 300 blackout was cheap factory ammunition (under $1 a round) but after month's of waiting; Ammo prices have not lowered and Cheap "223/5.56 price tag" ammo has yet to surface!
SO I though I would post some things I have heard in my circle and see what is really going on here... I have been staying away from the boards as this is a subject that has been eating me up inside but I can wait no more!!!

1. Remington is not making any 300 Blackout Ammunition as they do not have the budget to produce the tooling needed to do so.
2. Hornady is in fact making this ammo under contract for Remington / AAC
3. So no 123gr / Supersonic ammo with a ".223/5.56 price tag" will be available for a long long time.

Which brings me to my point WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON HERE???

Old Thread :arrow: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewt ... 35#p680835

Sorry for the rant, but this information comes from some pretty reliable sources and I would for once like a honest answer here.

J

Well, we are not even a year into the introduction. There are always unexpected things during this process, and it's shaking out pretty well- admittedly never as fast as anyone would want.

that said, i think you need a little rumor control:

1. wrong and wrong. actually Rem has been making huge investments in production capacity and tooling.

2. Remington has been making all of the ammo.

3. The 123 that was released earlier this year, but is being redesigned to work even better. These should be out this summer.

That's what's really going on here.
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Re: Super Sonic Ammo - What is really going on here ???

Post by bluebird » Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:15 pm

silencertalk wrote:The 123 grain ammo bullet was not as good as we thought it could be, so we decided to do a custom bullet rather than just use an AK-style bullet.

Sorry I don't mean to jack the thread, but does that mean that the bullet does not come from existing inventory? How different is it comparing to existing 125gr .308 bullets? Is the "custom" bullet going to be for sale in the future?

On a side note, is the 100gr short jacketed bullets suitable for reloading 300BLK?

Thanks.

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Re: Super Sonic Ammo - What is really going on here ???

Post by jbuck » Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:00 pm

bluebird wrote:
silencertalk wrote:The 123 grain ammo bullet was not as good as we thought it could be, so we decided to do a custom bullet rather than just use an AK-style bullet.

Sorry I don't mean to jack the thread, but does that mean that the bullet does not come from existing inventory? How different is it comparing to existing 125gr .308 bullets? Is the "custom" bullet going to be for sale in the future?

On a side note, is the 100gr short jacketed bullets suitable for reloading 300BLK?

Thanks.

It's probably the same as the bullets made for the Hornet. Designed to operate reliably at a lower velocity. They probably were operating at the lower end of the minimum need FPS's, then needed to design a bulleted with a thinner jacket or pre scored to help with expansion. (Speculation)

Not a bad thing as I have several other rounds that I would take first if I wanted supersonic performance, but I would love a expanding subsonic bullet that will feed from the magazine.

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Re: Super Sonic Ammo - What is really going on here ???

Post by 300Blk » Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:04 pm

bluebird wrote:Sorry I don't mean to jack the thread, but does that mean that the bullet does not come from existing inventory? How different is it comparing to existing 125gr .308 bullets? Is the "custom" bullet going to be for sale in the future?
The delay is because there are no bullets made by any company which we feel are ideal. We are designing new bullets that are loaded to more than 2.2 inches OAL to fill the magazine. They will probably be for sale.
bluebird wrote:On a side note, is the 100gr short jacketed bullets suitable for reloading 300BLK?
No, too short.

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Re: Super Sonic Ammo - What is really going on here ???

Post by 300Blk » Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:07 pm

jbuck wrote:It's probably the same as the bullets made for the Hornet. Designed to operate reliably at a lower velocity. They probably were operating at the lower end of the minimum need FPS's, then needed to design a bulleted with a thinner jacket or pre scored to help with expansion. (Speculation)

Not a bad thing as I have several other rounds that I would take first if I wanted supersonic performance, but I would love a expanding subsonic bullet that will feed from the magazine.
We have been discussing non-expanding bullets. They do not expand and so jacket thickness was not an issue.

We also designed expanding bullets for this velocity range, and that ammo will be for sale soon as well.

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Re: Super Sonic Ammo - What is really going on here ???

Post by robpiat » Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:22 pm

I don't understand peoples aversion to loading their own ammo. In the time spent concerned about the lack of factory ammo, you could have made your own.

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