300 BLACKOUT scope poll

Discussion about rifles in 300 AAC BLACKOUT (7.62x35mm), hosted by the creator of the cartridge.

Moderators: gds, bakerjw, renegade

Which zoom range?

1-3x zoom so I can go down to 1x.
43
19%
1.5-5x zoom as I would rather go up to 5x
135
61%
Illuminated 1x fixed to save weight and cost.
26
12%
Fixed 4x
19
9%
 
Total votes: 223

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Dr.Phil
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Re: 300 BLACKOUT scope poll

Post by Dr.Phil »

rob_s wrote:I've never had that plan pan out well. It's like buying one hammer handle and thinking you're going to change out heads depending on what needs whacking. It just doesn't work out.

Specific tools for specific jobs IMHO. But I also find that people can do a lot more with a lot less if they actually get out there and try it. The first time I shot a 5.56 AR at 200 yards was on 6" steel with a .625" diameter, 11.5" long barrel and a 4 MOA aimpoint shooting XM193 with a stock GI trigger. The internet had clearly told me I needed a heavier, longer barrel with a magnified optic and hand loads not to mention a two-stage trigger for this kind of shooting. Maybe even a bipod. Imagine my surprise when I consistently rang the plate over and over again from prone with nothing but my arms and the magazine (another internet no-no) to hold the gun up. My old competition and training gun was also a .625" barrel, this time 16", wearing a 3x Compact ACOG and I never encountered any close range issues once I learned how to use it properly.

I don't see what a 10x optic is providing with the round in question. 10x optics to me are for 1/8-mile guns and I don't see the 300 BLK as an 1/8-mile round. I'd look to one of the 6.x rounds for that if I was limited to the short mag AR platform and the .308 if I was not. I understand the point about seeing the gun as CQB first and distance secod vs. the reverse, I just don't see the value in the reverse given this round.
I'm not advocating any solution, merely sharing ones that work for me.
Proficiency with a bare setup is assumed and IMO a prerequisite.

I do a lot of Long Range Precision competition with my bolt gun and run what most consider more magnification than necessary. (8.5-25x)
My philosophy towards magnification is that it is better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
With the bolt gun, I run the baseline magnification @ 10x and adjust as the course of fire dictates.

As far as my carbine goes, two separate load out profiles work well for me.
Neither one may be optimal for all situations, but either of them will allow for reasonable engagements.
Choose the load out ahead of time and go with it.
(Reconfiguration on the fly is not realistic.)

I'll use my 5.56 setup as an example.
It is a 14.5" 1-9 twist heavy barrel using the A.R.M.S. 50M SIR rail system and LMT Enhanced BCG.
The lower wears an LMT 6 position SOPMOD stock and has an H2 Buffer .

The barrel is short enough to accommodate CQT and Vehicle Movement, but because it is a free floated heavy barrel it is able to shoot 69 grain SMks within 1 MOA out to ~ 600 yards.
Additionally, the heavy barrel is also more tolerant of heat generated by high round counts and the use of a sound suppressor.
The LMT Enhanced BCG adds both a boost in reliability as well as in accuracy due to its design and that the bolt unlocks much later.
The 6 position LMT SOPMOD stock allows for adjustable length of pull and excellent cheek weld.

With that base rifle in mind, RECCE type performance as well as CQT carbine performance can be had.
All one has to do is select the appropriate accessories.
(Or, you can always run it naked and use the irons.)

Sorry for the long and slightly off topic post, I just felt the need to clarify my position after reflecting on Rob_S post.
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Re: 300 BLACKOUT scope poll

Post by rob_s »

I guess I'm just not seeing why one would choose the 300 BLK for those kinds of applications.

It's not any one aspect of the proposed solutions that I'm not getting (although there are some cases of this as well) it's the overall big picture. I get why someone wants more magnification I just don't get why they want more magnification with this round. It doesn't seem well suited to the kinds of shooting that benefit from high magnification at distance and instead seems tailor made for the kinds of shooting that low, variable or fixed, would be perfect for.
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Re: 300 BLACKOUT scope poll

Post by 300Blk »

I am skeptical of the 1-4 scopes. I have the Nightforce and like it. I think the Trijicon looks like a good value. But whenever I put mine on 1x and look through it I realize that it does not replace a RDS as it still has some optical issues and finite eye relief. So that being the case, the Leupold 1.5-5x starts to look like a good idea - just eliminate the 1x from the bottom and remove it from the equation.
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Re: 300 BLACKOUT scope poll

Post by 700PSS »

silencertalk wrote:...the Leupold 1.5-5x starts to look like a good idea...
You know what bothers me about that one is the 20mm objective aperture. Why have a 30mm tube, to end up with only a 20mm objective aperture? Reminds me of the 4X20 .22 rimfire scopes that attach to the grooved receiver tops.
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Dr.Phil
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Re: 300 BLACKOUT scope poll

Post by Dr.Phil »

I think the great divide is the purpose that one selects the 300 BLK.

My build was underway as a 300/221 project prior to the release of the 300 BLK.
The primary goal of that was to be a full time suppressed platform that could produce MOA accurate fire at ranges out to at least 300 yards.
With hand loads and a quality upper, I believe that this is a modest goal.
A 3-10x optic seemed appropriate to me for this purpose.

From what Robert has been posting on this as well as other forums, it would seem to me that AAC is taking the inverse approach.
Their primary design goal is an efficient intermediate range 30 caliber cartridge that has the potential to be very quiet as well.
Given that AAC is primarily a silencer manufacture, I would think that they would have taken the opposite marketing approach myself.

Just a pure guess on my part, but AAC's initial offering appears to be targeted towards the niche market that previously used the MK19.
(NSW & USCG are the two that first pop into my head.)
By switching to the 9" AAC upper, they could maintain everything the MK18 does, but add the stopping power of a 30 caliber projectile.
Smart approach, I can't think of any downside at all...
Last edited by Dr.Phil on Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 300 BLACKOUT scope poll

Post by 300Blk »

You mean the Mk18?

I see our 9 inch upper replacing the MP5-SD, the MP7, and the 10 inch HK-416.
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rob_s
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Re: 300 BLACKOUT scope poll

Post by rob_s »

silencertalk wrote:I am skeptical of the 1-4 scopes. I have the Nightforce and like it. I think the Trijicon looks like a good value. But whenever I put mine on 1x and look through it I realize that it does not replace a RDS as it still has some optical issues and finite eye relief. So that being the case, the Leupold 1.5-5x starts to look like a good idea - just eliminate the 1x from the bottom and remove it from the equation.
I agree in that I haven't found a "true 1x" that really was "true" in the sense that it could replace an RDS. However, having spent a lot of time with a 3x Compact ACOG at close range I can tell you that if used properly it doesn't matter. I have looked through the Trijicon 1x and 1.5x side by side and did prefer the 1x but I haven't spent any time on the range with both side by side.
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rob_s
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Re: 300 BLACKOUT scope poll

Post by rob_s »

Dr.Phil wrote:I think the great divide is the purpose that one selects the 300 BLK.

My build was underway as a 300/221 project prior to the release of the 300 BLK.
The primary goal of that was to be a full time suppressed platform that could produce MOA accurate fire at ranges out to at least 300 yards.
With hand loads and a quality upper, I believe that this is a modest goal.
A 3-10x optic seemed appropriate to me for this purpose.

From what Robert has been posting on this as well as other forums, it would seem to me that AAC is taking the inverse approach.
Their primary design goal is an efficient intermediate range 30 caliber cartridge that has the potential to be very quiet as well.
Given that AAC is primarily a silencer manufacture, I would think that they would have taken the opposite marketing approach myself.

Just a pure guess on my part, but AAC's initial offering appears to be targeted towards the niche market that previously used the MK19.
(NSW & USCG are the two that first pop into my head.)
By switching to the 9" AAC upper, they could maintain everything the MK19 does, but add the stopping power of a 30 caliber projectile.
Smart approach, I can't think of any downside at all...
Makes more sense now. I agree with what AAC appears to be focusing on, and that is also in line with my own interest in the round, hence my preference for lower-power optics in this caliber.
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Dr.Phil
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Re: 300 BLACKOUT scope poll

Post by Dr.Phil »

silencertalk wrote:You mean the Mk18?

I see our 9 inch upper replacing the MP5-SD, the MP7, and the 10 inch HK-416.
Duh...

Yea, fat fingered that one.

Any word on price and availability for the M3 knobs?
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Re: 300 BLACKOUT scope poll

Post by 300Blk »

The knobs have to be tested with final production ammo which I don't even have yet. I would say the knobs are more of a Shot Show item.
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