300 blk out accuracy with cast bullets and seperate jacketed bullets

[certifiable]

My experience with cast bullets is very limited but I have found the accuracy to be acceptable

Pay no attention to any groups that certifiable posts, there seems to be some debate as to if he is actually human or machine.

For transparency sake, I will admit that my skeletal structure is comprised of a fair amount of titanium

[farright]

thanks, i feel I am finally getting usable information. I will keep plodding along and will report my results hopefully for the benefit of all. i believe we learn as much from our large groups as from the small ones. record keeping is so important before I started keeping good records I found myself repeating things that didn't work. and as we all know one group really doesn't tell us much unless it can be repeated. I find I can repeat the bad groups easier than the good ones. i was wondering about the fast twist rate. the bullets are really spinning. i wonder what effect that has when it hits an animal. if it makes any difference or not. i find it hard to shoot my best when it is so darn cold. joe g. in selah wa.

[rebel]

certifiable wrote:
My experience with cast bullets is very limited but I have found the accuracy to be acceptable


Pay no attention to any groups that certifiable posts, there seems to be some debate as to if he is actually human or machine.

Terminator

[popper]

It will depend a lot on your barrel twist. I use a 142 gr RNFP PB @ 2100 fps, H110 in an 18" 1:10 AR. Get a 1 1/2" circle at 100 due to base cutting by the gas port. H3031 jacketed @ 100 is easy MOA.

[45r]

I got 1 inch groups a couple day's ago using noe 311247 powder coated over 8.3 grains aa-9 with cci-400 primers in my rem 700.
I like rem 700 bolt guns.
My 243 with thumb hole stock shoots half inch.
I don't use a free recoil hold anymore after shooting big magnums.
I like holding the rear bag and grip tight and pulling in snug to shoulder.
Driving the rifle,not letting it slide or move works better for me.
It helps with vertical a lot using subs.

[Dolomite_Supafly]

I spent a lot of time chasing groups. 90% of your gains will be with your brass. Here is what I did to achieve consistent .3" groups with a factory Savage. When I shot groups I would shoot 10 shots and remove the 3 outliers to remove the shooter from the equation. This would leave me with a 7 shot group showing what the gun was capable of. 3 shot groups show nothing but a lucky group. I have seen shooter after shooter shoot 3 shot groups until they got one good group then snap pictures to show how good their gun grouped. That is not a good group, that is luck. 5, or more, shot groups are great for testing the shooter and the gun. And to get consistent results the shooter must be capable of being as consistent as his ammunition and his gun. Almost any gun is capable of shooting great groups but most shooters are not. It takes a lot of time behind a gun, any gun, to improve your consistency as a shooter. In order to shoot amazing groups the shooter, the gun and the ammunition MUST be consistent and they must ALL work together consistently. If any one of those things isn't consistent the groups will suffer.

I quit shooting groups when I found myself spending at least 10 minutes per shot prepping. I would work all week to get an hours worth of shooting in and I decided it wasn't worth it. I started shooting steel instead, more fun with a positive feedback without having to constantly look through a spotting scope.

I hope this helps but beware of the rabbit hole, it can suck you in.

Case prep.
Start out with good brass, no surplus. Lapua is the first choice Winchester is the second. Anything else I tried never worked as well as these two.
You MUST size new brass.
Size, Trim, Fire, Size, Trim.
Weigh and find the weight range that say 75% of the lot will fall into. Use the other 25% for fouler loads.
Once you have your 75% anneal the case necks. Chamfer and uniform the flash hole. Lyman makes a great tool for this for under $15. Chuck it into a drill to make the process faster. Once done you never have to do it again. This single step gave me the biggest improvement in group sizes.
Then for a final time, size and trim.
Separate the body sizing from the neck sizing. I used a neck die and body die instead of an all in one die. And when sizing, size the brass to the gun. With bolt guns you can get 2-3 loadings before you probably have to size the body but all guns and loads are different so it might be more or it might be less. Closing the bolt will get progressively harder as you reload without sizing the body.
My neck sizing pin was undersized by .002" so only neck tension would hold the bullet.

Now the bullets.
Start by sorting by weight and find a range where 75% fall into.
Next you must measure the bearing surface length. You do this by buying to comparators and attaching them to each arm of a caliper. You put the bullet in and measure the length of the actual bearing surface. This makes a pretty big difference because different bearing lengths create different pressures and different pressures create different velocities. When I started doing this my vertical stringing stopped. I would sort down to .003" bearing lengths. In a 500 lot box of bullets you will have 4-5 different lots with one having the vast majority. The others that are not in the majority, use them for foulers.

Primers do make a difference but not all primers labeled as "match" will give match performance. Tula and Wolf consistently give me the smallest SD numbers. I have a press mounted primer that I use. It replaces the sizing die and allows me to set the primer depth so they are a uniform distance from the firing pin. Some primers will slightly flatten while others may not but all are the exact same distance from the firing pin.

When measuring powder I would drop it from a measure by hand and weigh on electronic scales. I would trickle up to the desired weight. Then I would drop it on a second scale to verify weight. If the two numbers did not match I would dump the charge and start over. I would also calibrate the scales at the beginning of every loading session because weather has an affect on scale performance. I would also make sure the A/C or heat was not on and that I was in a room with zero drafts or airflow that might affect the scales. I have read certain types of lights can affect electronic scales but I have not observed it.

When loading I do it on a single stage press, always. I would seat the bullet, turn it 180 degrees and run the arm again. This was to hopefully correct any concentricity problems. I never used a concentricity gauge.
I would drop the powder from the powder pan into the case. I would use a vibrator to settle the powder before seating if there was enough powder for the bullet to crush the powder.
I would never crimp.

Some guns like being in the lands while others like a jump. My particular gun liked a jump but some guns like having the bullet jammed into the lands as well.

For the gun itself there are plenty of tricks. Bed the action. Decent trigger. Decent optics. Tighten the action to the stock using wrenches to ensure the same torque every time. Set firing pin protrusion to the optimal length. For Savages that seemed to be .040"-.042".

And when shooting what the gun rests on is the most important thing. If you are shooting off a bipod it can cause harmonic issues that seem intermittent. Use a good "soft" rest like a bag or backpack. I had a backpack I stuffed with several pillows that I would lay my gun across. I would use a rear bag as well. I have used led sleds before but I prefer to shoot the gun. And one more thing, some guns like to recoil so you hold it loose while others like it firm against the shoulder.

And keep a log book of all the pertinent information as well as the weather because how a gun shoots can be affected by weather. A gun will rarely shoot the same between two days if the weather is not the same.

I am sure I am forgetting 90% of what worked for me but this will keep anyone busy for a while.

I welcome questions.

[hardcase]

I spent a lot of time chasing groups. 90% of your gains will be with your brass. Here is what I did to achieve consistent .3" groups with a factory Savage. When I shot groups I would shoot 10 shots and remove the 3 outliers to remove the shooter from the equation. This would leave me with a 7 shot group showing what the gun was capable of. 3 shot groups show nothing but a lucky group. I have seen shooter after shooter shoot 3 shot groups until they got one good group then snap pictures to show how good their gun grouped. That is not a good group, that is luck. 5, or more, shot groups are great for testing the shooter and the gun. And to get consistent results the shooter must be capable of being as consistent as his ammunition and his gun. Almost any gun is capable of shooting great groups but most shooters are not. It takes a lot of time behind a gun, any gun, to improve your consistency as a shooter. In order to shoot amazing groups the shooter, the gun and the ammunition MUST be consistent and they must ALL work together consistently. If any one of those things isn't consistent the groups will suffer.

I quit shooting groups when I found myself spending at least 10 minutes per shot prepping. I would work all week to get an hours worth of shooting in and I decided it wasn't worth it. I started shooting steel instead, more fun with a positive feedback without having to constantly look through a spotting scope.

I hope this helps but beware of the rabbit hole, it can suck you in.

Case prep.
Start out with good brass, no surplus. Lapua is the first choice Winchester is the second. Anything else I tried never worked as well as these two.
You MUST size new brass.
Size, Trim, Fire, Size, Trim.
Weigh and find the weight range that say 75% of the lot will fall into. Use the other 25% for fouler loads.
Once you have your 75% anneal the case necks. Chamfer and uniform the flash hole. Lyman makes a great tool for this for under $15. Chuck it into a drill to make the process faster. Once done you never have to do it again. This single step gave me the biggest improvement in group sizes.
Then for a final time, size and trim.
Separate the body sizing from the neck sizing. I used a neck die and body die instead of an all in one die. And when sizing, size the brass to the gun. With bolt guns you can get 2-3 loadings before you probably have to size the body but all guns and loads are different so it might be more or it might be less. Closing the bolt will get progressively harder as you reload without sizing the body.
My neck sizing pin was undersized by .002" so only neck tension would hold the bullet.

Now the bullets.
Start by sorting by weight and find a range where 75% fall into.
Next you must measure the bearing surface length. You do this by buying to comparators and attaching them to each arm of a caliper. You put the bullet in and measure the length of the actual bearing surface. This makes a pretty big difference because different bearing lengths create different pressures and different pressures create different velocities. When I started doing this my vertical stringing stopped. I would sort down to .003" bearing lengths. In a 500 lot box of bullets you will have 4-5 different lots with one having the vast majority. The others that are not in the majority, use them for foulers.

Primers do make a difference but not all primers labeled as "match" will give match performance. Tula and Wolf consistently give me the smallest SD numbers. I have a press mounted primer that I use. It replaces the sizing die and allows me to set the primer depth so they are a uniform distance from the firing pin. Some primers will slightly flatten while others may not but all are the exact same distance from the firing pin.

When measuring powder I would drop it from a measure by hand and weigh on electronic scales. I would trickle up to the desired weight. Then I would drop it on a second scale to verify weight. If the two numbers did not match I would dump the charge and start over. I would also calibrate the scales at the beginning of every loading session because weather has an affect on scale performance. I would also make sure the A/C or heat was not on and that I was in a room with zero drafts or airflow that might affect the scales. I have read certain types of lights can affect electronic scales but I have not observed it.

When loading I do it on a single stage press, always. I would seat the bullet, turn it 180 degrees and run the arm again. This was to hopefully correct any concentricity problems. I never used a concentricity gauge.
I would drop the powder from the powder pan into the case. I would use a vibrator to settle the powder before seating if there was enough powder for the bullet to crush the powder.
I would never crimp.

Some guns like being in the lands while others like a jump. My particular gun liked a jump but some guns like having the bullet jammed into the lands as well.

For the gun itself there are plenty of tricks. Bed the action. Decent trigger. Decent optics. Tighten the action to the stock using wrenches to ensure the same torque every time. Set firing pin protrusion to the optimal length. For Savages that seemed to be .040"-.042".

And when shooting what the gun rests on is the most important thing. If you are shooting off a bipod it can cause harmonic issues that seem intermittent. Use a good "soft" rest like a bag or backpack. I had a backpack I stuffed with several pillows that I would lay my gun across. I would use a rear bag as well. I have used led sleds before but I prefer to shoot the gun. And one more thing, some guns like to recoil so you hold it loose while others like it firm against the shoulder.

And keep a log book of all the pertinent information as well as the weather because how a gun shoots can be affected by weather. A gun will rarely shoot the same between two days if the weather is not the same.

I am sure I am forgetting 90% of what worked for me but this will keep anyone busy for a while.

I welcome questions.

Great post!!

A question unrelated, but how did you develop the Dolemite Special? It is so different than most bullets but gets good reviews.

[Dolomite_Supafly]

Great post!!

A question unrelated, but how did you develop the Dolemite Special? It is so different than most bullets but gets good reviews.

Basically I just figured out the biggest mold I could buy then used that length for the bullets length. Then figured out the optimal charge weight and case fill to give me the bearing surface. Once I had the bearing surface length I subtracted the overall length of the bullet to get the nose. The nose took me a very, very long time to work out and it wasn't perfect, we have another version that will start selling real soon. I tried 4-5 different nose profiles before settling on the one it has now. It is about as blunt as you can get and still feed. It was originally supposed to be a single shot bullet but someone tried it in their AR and it somewhat worked so I tweaked it just enough to work.

I had 4-5 customers complain about them being too big for THEIR chambers. I know there are probably more so I decided to make the bullet a bit more universal. Hopefully accuracy will still be there, we shall see.

[dellet]

Great post!!

A question unrelated, but how did you develop the Dolemite Special? It is so different than most bullets but gets good reviews.

Basically I just figured out the biggest mold I could buy then used that length for the bullets length. Then figured out the optimal charge weight and case fill to give me the bearing surface. Once I had the bearing surface length I subtracted the overall length of the bullet to get the nose. The nose took me a very, very long time to work out and it wasn't perfect, we have another version that will start selling real soon. I tried 4-5 different nose profiles before settling on the one it has now. It is about as blunt as you can get and still feed. It was originally supposed to be a single shot bullet but someone tried it in their AR and it somewhat worked so I tweaked it just enough to work.

I had 4-5 customers complain about them being too big for THEIR chambers. I know there are probably more so I decided to make the bullet a bit more universal. Hopefully accuracy will still be there, we shall see.

It's my understanding that same jackass was using 110 grain subsonic single shot bullets in an AR as well as some light cast designed as a super.

When you have a cartridge this versatile, you just can't trust anybody to use anything as intended

[Dolomite_Supafly]

Great post!!

A question unrelated, but how did you develop the Dolemite Special? It is so different than most bullets but gets good reviews.

Basically I just figured out the biggest mold I could buy then used that length for the bullets length. Then figured out the optimal charge weight and case fill to give me the bearing surface. Once I had the bearing surface length I subtracted the overall length of the bullet to get the nose. The nose took me a very, very long time to work out and it wasn't perfect, we have another version that will start selling real soon. I tried 4-5 different nose profiles before settling on the one it has now. It is about as blunt as you can get and still feed. It was originally supposed to be a single shot bullet but someone tried it in their AR and it somewhat worked so I tweaked it just enough to work.

I had 4-5 customers complain about them being too big for THEIR chambers. I know there are probably more so I decided to make the bullet a bit more universal. Hopefully accuracy will still be there, we shall see.

It's my understanding that same jackass was using 110 grain subsonic single shot bullets in an AR as well as some light cast designed as a super.

When you have a cartridge this versatile, you just can't trust anybody to use anything as intended

I've been known to load two, yes 2, 110 grain 30 carbine bullets in the same case. I would drop one in the case neck nose first then use the second to push it into the case neck. Case neck held both just fine. I used 220 grain load data and it worked pretty well. At 50 yards the one hit to point of aim and the other would hit about 4" out from the other. Best part is it even cycled my AR.